A plea to developers .....stop the right click/ left click insanity

[Daveo 36]

The same thing happens in a real AC when you go to tune the radio or the heading bug or whatnot and you hit a patch of air. You wind up knuckling the dashboard instead so you do it again.

[Sekstifire 10]

I dont know about that, in a real airplane you could basically reach out and operate the heading selector knob blindfolded. In the sim you have to fumble with the mouse to find that exact clickspot

[NoahBryant 26]

Rob - The left/right click+drag to operate the engine controls in the Duke are by far my favorite of any other planes. A perfect example of why developers should be able to come up with their own ideas (not sure if you guys were the first to do it but it was the first I saw of it).

 

I have also noticed that for whatever reason, some simmers seem to be more prone to thinking something they like and are used to is the "right" way and developers should do what they say. We all sim in slightly different ways. From the 2D/3D argument, to time acceleration to which ATC to use etc etc etc, we all have our own preferences that we all enjoy.

 

Sure I would love it if all developers developed their planes exactly like I like, but I can understand that would upset probably 90% of all other simmers.

[vololiberista 205]

This trend of fancy schmancy mouse clicks for switches, dials, views, etc etc etc.

Right click to rotate right.

Left click to rotate left.

Right click to open fully.

Left click to open partially.

Right click to open cap, Left click to close (Why???!!!!)

Right click Left click Right Lfet Rtdg cRlik..............

 

Problem 1 .... developers all do it differently.

Problem 1.5 ... it's often not even consistant on the same aircraft, let alone trying to keep up with the inventive clickies of each addon I fly.

Problem 2 ... right clicking also opens the window dialog box, so every time you Right click where there happens to be no Right click option that damned window pops up ........ again ......... asking me what I want to do with window options. The answer each time is of course "nothing. go. away."

 

It's madness. And it is actually far, far more irritating than I find myself able to articulate or detail here. There was once, not so long ago, a perfectly fine, universal system of Left clicking and mouse wheeling up/down.

 

Click left side - thingy moves left

Click right side - thingy moves right

Click one side of cap - cap opens

Click other side - cap closes

Click outer area - big numbers change

Click inner area - small numbers change

 

I LOVE that ^^^

 

Simple. Logical.

 

Click areas are many times less frustrating than the guesswork involved with the inconsistancies of clickology, clickomatics, clickapalooza, and the irritating little surprises when guessing wrong.

 

I have to say that the poster has made somewhat emotive remarks and clearly doesn't understand how and why gauges are designed the way they are.

let's look at a gauge example:-

 

This is the Yaw Damper Indicator for the VC10. First notice that there are three yaw dampers. Standby - not connected to the AP and powered by emergency and auxiliary power - Yaw Dampers 1 & 2 linked to the AP and powered by the main buses.

Did I mention that the sim only has one yaw damper? So therefore each yaw damper has to be programmed to work independently and yet provide meaningful information to the pilot.

Then let's look at the gauge facia. Oh, it has buttons so therefore I cannot programme a "click" Are the buttons "press-hold-release" or "press-release" or are they both? The grey button activates the yaw damper, the white button tests it/them.

 

Oh Look! There's a flap which has been closed by the pilot's hand. How am I going to model that? Well, the only solution was a click area immediately next to the yaw damper instrument. In the manual there is a written and pictorial explanation so it is clear to any user how to operate this instrument.

I'm afraid each a/c model is different so you have to get used to different cockpit procedures. You will never end up with a set of standard instruments for each and every a/c it just won't happen.

Spare a thought for the developers who have to test their work to destruction and endeavour to be as precise and as true as possible to the workings of the gauge they are designing.

Airliner cockpits both modern and classic are extremely complex animals enough for each a/c to have a dedicated flight manual which each crew must thoroughly learn and inwardly digest. If you are too lazy to learn how an a/c works then that's not the developer's problem

vololiberista

[bud7h7 1]

^^ Great post, and it makes perfect sense. But the other 99.9999% buttons and switches don't require both right and left clicks.

 

If you are too lazy to learn how an a/c works then that's not the developer's problem

 

Who's talking about how aircraft work? Anyone? We're just talking about mouse clicks, friend. Just the mouse clicks.

[vololiberista 205]

 

Who's talking about how aircraft work? Anyone? We're just talking about mouse clicks, friend. Just the mouse clicks.

 

That's the point!! Developers spend a great deal of time and effort in trying to recreate how a/c work!

and as for disabling the menu pop-up. It may be possible but then you will disable all right clicks in any Windows programme!

vololiberista

[Noel 4,563]

Well, I'll say it again. While developers will do what they will do, and some do become incensed when the end user whines or even suggests a better way, I think it's a hard fact that some solutions are better than others. I can appreciate the incensed part because to pull off something with the kind of work some of this stuff must surely require, one could assume one should be fully entitled to do what they wanted to do, and be fully respected for this. Easy to understand this sentiment.

 

What could happen organically, is over time better models will endure and proliferate. As mentioned previously, the left click gets 5x, and the right 1x, really is fast to learn, fast to execute, and much more accurate than some models for accomplishing the same thing (OMG, the Super MD-80!). I think the wisest developers (creative AND w/ good business sense) will pay attention not to how to make a realistic facsimile of what the real deal does, but instead to focus more on what the end-users find most attractive to use. From purely a business perspective this makes the most sense. Some devs however have more or other agendas than just sales. So for them, they do execute their 'developers license' as it were, even to their own business peril. Another case in point from this end user: FT's ERJ2's lighting modeling. Many complaints from users, and really, a wholesale shine on by FT's developers. They lost me as a customer, but I think that apparently is ok with them else they would be more accommodating, or at least interested! It's surely their call, as I say, to their sales peril.

[vololiberista 205]

Well, I'll say it again. While developers will do what they will do, and some do become incensed when the end user whines or even suggests a better way, I think it's a hard fact that some solutions are better than others. I can appreciate the incensed part because to pull off something with the kind of work some of this stuff must surely require, one could assume one should be fully entitled to do what they wanted to do, and be fully respected for this. Easy to understand this sentiment.

 

What could happen organically, is over time better models will endure and proliferate. As mentioned previously, the left click gets 5x, and the right 1x, really is fast to learn, fast to execute, and much more accurate than some models for accomplishing the same thing (OMG, the Super MD-80!). I think the wisest developers (creative AND w/ good business sense) will pay attention not to how to make a realistic facsimile of what the real deal does, but instead to focus more on what the end-users find most attractive to use. From purely a business perspective this makes the most sense. Some devs however have more or other agendas than just sales. So for them, they do execute their 'developers license' as it were, even to their own business peril. Another case in point from this end user: FT's ERJ2's lighting modeling. Many complaints from users, and really, a wholesale shine on by FT's developers. They lost me as a customer, but I think that apparently is ok with them else they would be more accommodating, or at least interested! It's surely their call, as I say, to their sales peril.

 

A good developer will model as closely as possible the workings of a gauge bearing in mind that a real ergonomic cockpit has to be transferred somehow onto a flat 2D screen. Some cockpit gauges don't have switches or buttons whereas in the sim they can be modelled giving the simmer short cuts where otherwise they would have to constantly for example flip between an engineer's panel and the main. Or from the OH to the main.

In a real a/c it's nothing to check an instrument and then look up on the OH to switch or press something related to it. And at the same time look down at the gauge whilst still operating the OH controls. That's not possible at all in the sim so developers have to come up with a compromise. The only kind of sim that models "exactly" each instrument is the specially designed full motion sim to train the pilots on type!

That's the way it is I'm afraid!

vololiberista

[repaid22 2]

I have not minded most of the configurations in the payware that I have purcased in the past or currently.. accept this.. right clicking that brings up the danged FS menu cause I"m a pixel off. I absolutely loathe that.

[vololiberista 205]

I have not minded most of the configurations in the payware that I have purcased in the past or currently.. accept this.. right clicking that brings up the danged FS menu cause I"m a pixel off. I absolutely loathe that.

Unless a gauge has a right click function then that will happen. The only way of stopping that is to shut it down for the whole of Windows! As for the pluses and minuses, how would you programme a knob? On the real instrument one can turn the knob left or right say for example for tuning a radio. The developer has no other choice other than to model the knob either by clicking on the plus or minus or left click/hold right click/hold.

That's the way it is and will remain!!

vololiberista

[avhpilot 156]

i don't mind the right-clicking as long as the detection area is well programmed. The PMDG NGX has the best implementation of this and i will never make a mistake to accidentily bring up the windows right-lick context menu, not even with EZDOK camera and heavy turbulence.

 

However, with the PMDG MD11 (for instance) it can be a frustration and chances are you right-click outside a spot area, bring up the context menu and accidently select 'mouse as yoke'. That is the most irritating thing that can happen.

 

Question, is there not an option to disable this context-menu from popping up?

[vololiberista 205]

 

Question, is there not an option to disable this context-menu from popping up?

 

As stated above! It's a Windows function and affects all of Windows and not just the sim if it could be done.

[TheDanger 182]

Developers should be more concerned with what customers want and not what developers want. Have you guys even tried to develop community-wide standards? I agree that no one will agree; that's why I believe someone like AVSIM should impose standards. Imagine every city in the US using a different type outlet for their electrical system - that's what we have with FS.

 

Slightly OT but the same should be applied to the Navdata. Why so many formats? Why not just one?

[vololiberista 205]

What is being asked for here is that every aircraft ever built must have exactly the same instrumentation, dials, and switches in exactly the same places. If my recollection serves me right that actually isn't the case!!

If every a/c model was exactly the same there would be a huge outcry from the sim community complaining that cockpits are not modelled correctly etc etc.

Compare that with one person who frankly is just too lazy to press, or click, left ot right!

Developers do the best they can with the tools MS give them in the sims to model as closely as they can the functions of various components. You are lucky that many even do that for free!

[mgh 89]

I believe someone like AVSIM should impose standards.

 

Perhaps you could explain how AVSIM (or indeed anyone else) could impose standards?