Flight interest dwindling...too bad

[Guest ecg]

Put a fork in it....it's done. It's hard to understand why so many of you have invested emotionally and financially in what you thought would be FS11. It's neither FS nor 11. it's a poorly conceived game. Get over it.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I see the light! Your insight has shown me the error of my ways. No more FLIGHT for me.

[Guest Antlab]

Could be partially attributed to inertia...

Flight started out on Live, and everyone started using it there...

I suspect the vast majority of users haven't bothered to switch over to Steam... I know I haven't.

Just a theory...

 

It could be, I don't have numerical data concerning the respective numbers on Live and on Steam.

At first glance one could think that Steam gives more "general" visibility to a title, also considering that MS did not make a huge advertising campaing for Flight, so that it seems to be famous only in the inner flight sim circles.

A possible confirmation can be seen on mainstream gaming sites, as Gamespot. I just checked, and the user votes, after almost two months since the release, are only 111, with the average of an awful 4.9/10.

These are very poor results respect to other recent titles, not only famous strategy games as Shogun TW, but also relative underdogs, as Botanicula (???):

 

http://www.gamespot....la/platform/pc/

 

A.

 

P.S. By the way, are there for Live some statistics with the numbers of players for title, as those reported for Steam? It would be interesting to compare the two platforms.

[DAD 2,650]

but also relative underdogs, as Botanicula (???)

well, I decided to follow the link and if you follow it further down to http://botanicula.net/about.html then you will see these key features:

 

• Relaxed game perfect for hardcore gamers, their partners, families and seniors.

• More than 150 detailed locations to explore.

• Hundreds of funny animations.

• Incredible amount of hidden bonuses.

• Fantastic music and sound effects by fantastic band DVA

• Not one but five main characters with various skills and personalities.

• No text or lengthy dialogs to bore you.

• Bonuses for vigilant players at the end of the game.

 

Now replace hidden bonus with aerocache and characters with airplanes and... sounds familiar? :Just Kidding:

[Guest]

These opinions should be seen in perspective.

 

There are many cockpitless warbirds in the pipeline, they will be released during the next months.

 

So, considering this scenario, which is your opinion on Flight now ?

 

Thx

[Guest Antlab]

well, I decided to follow the link and if you follow it further down to http://botanicula.net/about.html then you will see these key features:

......

Now replace hidden bonus with aerocache and characters with airplanes and... sounds familiar? :Just Kidding:

 

Sure it does (I admit I never heard of Botanicula before).

The little problem for MS is that, on one of the major general gaming website, after 2 months Flight has only 111 votes and 4.9 of average, a little title as Botanicula (not BF or COD) has, after I think 1 week since release, already 59 votes with an average of 8.6.

So the problem seems double: little interest (as from the position in the Steam statistics) and terrible ratings from casual players.

I don't know how this kind of data are read in MS headquarters, because they go much beyond the "vocal" reaction of the old simmers, they seem indicate that the young title has substantial difficulty in reaching the planned new target, don't you think?

 

A.

[pathfinder1 0]

I completely agree. I still have full expectations for Flight down the road having all the extras anyone could hope for via DLC purchase (ATC, complex aircraft, large regions, AI traffic), for the simple reason of why would they not and further the underpinings for it appear to be in the game or in the code. I feel lucky to be able to play around with the stripped down version for free when normally we would have to wait until Fall to try out a big name release like Flight. Would anyone rather be sitting around speculating about the game based on some screen shots released by MS untll this fall? Essentially, they released a working Beta or Alpha stripped down version which happens to work perfectly with their marketing and DLC based sales strategy so win win for eveyone. By this Fall my guess is that there will be about as much DLC content available for MSF as one would have expected with a more complete program and a year or two from now I'd be shocked if most of the extras available for FSX are not available for MSF. That being said, for the moment I'm still primairly flying FSX becuase I want ATC and AI traffic and want to fly in many other places and probably will not purchase from MSF, beyone the Maul which I just had to try, until there are enough other bells and wistles available with MSF.

 

To me the main point that is being missed here is not whether MS Flight is a success or a failure, it will be whatever the MS decides it will be. The point is that MS really does not give a rats butt what any one of us thinks. Just go on the MSFlight web page ( I am sure you all have) and it's quite obvious they do not wish to converse with any of their fan base whether they be appreciative fans or disappointed fans.

You might just as well beat your head against a brick wall, it might feel better. The least MS could do is give is respond to fans who want this platform to work, throw us a bone or something, but no, not one word, other then to push their predetermined agenda.

Such a shame really because I really to love the concept, I bought in hook line and sinker(other than the fighters), but now I have not flown on Flight in three weeks, instead of flying now, I am just following the forums hoping for some kind of miracle.

MS will only listen when it fails and even then they won't talk to us about it. I just love huge business.....NOT

 

I really believe Flight will resemble the next FS in a couple of years (unfortunately the golden era of freeware and an open add-on market will end with FSX).

 

Josh Howard: "But simulation is a critical aspect of what we are trying to do – no arcade game can capture the majesty of flying the way a sophisticated simulation can. On our journey I expect the depth and breadth of our simulation to grow, as well for the product to get deeper in many other ways as well. Unlike a retail product, with our living product, our fans can join us on this journey, and we can make progress on the journey measured in weeks, not years."

 

What Josh is saying (not saying) is that they are going to sell us the next Flight Simulator piece by piece. Part of the reason MS is being so hush hush, and even denying future plans, is that would have the potential to undermine the perception, and most importantly the sales, of what is currently being offered in the market.

 

George Lucas- the majority of his loyal fans were begging for the original Star Wars on DVD... Nope, never gonna happen George would say. So his fans would reluctantly buy the prequal DVDs and succumb to that is as good as it is going to get. Then the original series was released on DVD with the additional content, and again his fans screamed "but we want the original trilogy in their original forms", and again George says "never going to happen". So his fans set out and buy the new versions, lamenting that this is as good as it is going to get. Then out of the blue, wham! George releases the original, uncut trilogies and his fans rush to the stores to finally get their hands on what they have wanted all along, even though they now realize they are the dupe of a fantastic marketing scheme. (Remember, this is coming from a guy that is questionably a better marketer than he is a director- he invented the hollywood toy merchandising market that exists today).

 

So MS is going to sell us this "journey" one chapter at a time, and they are not going to sell the last chapter until they are sure their loyal fans have also purchased 1-9.

 

It is all about the marketing when all is said and done....Good thoughts on the subject. :)

[HiFlyer 9,359]

We seem to do this on a monthly basis, don't we?

 

As Flight is only about two months in, and I have no amnesia as to the comments that were being made at this point after the release of FSX, I will just settle down to wait and see.

 

I will make an observation, though. In the FSX market, we have grown use to a veritable flood of products, with a new one released almost every day. To alleviate our boredom, we soak up these new products and even as we "consume" them, are on the lookout for the next interesting thing to hold back the ever encroaching tides of boredom.

 

I can already see this affect in the vast, echoing corridors of other recent sim forums, where nothing new is happening to slake the beast.

 

I suspect Alaska will spur yet another "burst" in this cycle; and being the voracious enthusiasts that we are, the content will be run through with outrageous speed, after which I will not be surprised to see the whole thing start all over again.

 

Which means about a month (maybe a bit longer this time) after the release of Alaska, I will be looking for the next rash of "Is Flight dead" threads.

 

I presume this will happen until Flight either reaches "escape velocity" and nobody (well, nobody sane) can deny its success (even if they dislike the form that success has taken) or it fails, and Microsoft withdraws from the market for a generation; which will be surely seen as a vindication in some circles, but a pyrrhic victory indeed for Flight simulation in general. What big players will enter the civil market after that?

 

Those smaller players that attempt such a thing will likely go even slower than Flight is now!!!

[Dogstar23 0]

To me the main point that is being missed here is not whether MS Flight is a success or a failure, it will be whatever the MS decides it will be. The point is that MS really does not give a rats butt what any one of us thinks. Just go on the MSFlight web page ( I am sure you all have) and it's quite obvious they do not wish to converse with any of their fan base whether they be appreciative fans or disappointed fans.

You might just as well beat your head against a brick wall, it might feel better. The least MS could do is give is respond to fans who want this platform to work, throw us a bone or something, but no, not one word, other then to push their predetermined agenda.

Such a shame really because I really to love the concept, I bought in hook line and sinker(other than the fighters), but now I have not flown on Flight in three weeks, instead of flying now, I am just following the forums hoping for some kind of miracle.

MS will only listen when it fails and even then they won't talk to us about it. I just love huge business.....NOT

 

I agree. All MSF has to do to turn the whole tide of people on the fence and get everyone on board is to issue a statement "MSF, while it makes no guarnatees, desires at some point to make available DLC such as ATC, AI traffic DLC, weather programs, large regions, and or advanced commerical aircraft" This would provide an immediate singal as to the long term direction of the program.

[Gason 6]

Just checked.

 

Place 94 in Top 100, players 407, best today 646.

 

Goran

[1mikel151 71]

Devon, while I agree with you to an extent, I think the biggest problem is we are so used to much more variety with past sims thanks to freeware and 3rd party deveopers that is does make us a bit spoiled and impatient. I have tried to look at Flight the way i do other games i play that release expansion packs and extras and in that context, I am really surprised MS didn't have more foresight in their marketing and not have more extras for us between regions to keep us occupied. With the first person camera view, I would be in Flight 24/7 is the whole world was just there.

 

I agree. All MSF has to do to turn the whole tide of people on the fence and get everyone on board is to issue a statement "MSF, while it makes no guarnatees, desires at some point to make available DLC such as ATC, AI traffic DLC, weather programs, large regions, and or advanced commerical aircraft" This would provide an immediate singal as to the long term direction of the program.

 

Agreed, a little insight will go a long way!

[pmanhart 176]

Something I've noticed that has been lost among other discussions relating to Flight's success/failure is what effect their choice to not only exclude, but alienate, third-party developers.

 

Had they decided to release Flight with it's paltry amount of included scenery, for $19.99 with an SDK, would anyone be having these discussions? I think not.

 

Flight would have already been accepted by the "hardcore" crowd, and by now we would see developers releasing addons for it at a rate akin to what we see for FSX.

 

If MS wants Flight to succeed, instead of being labeled as either a failure by the community or it's shareholders, they need to do the following as soon as possible:

1. End F2P, include the Hawaii Adventure Pack and Maule, and market it as a low priced App for $9.99-$19.99 so MS can still see profit generated from it.
   
2. Replace Mr. Howard, as his chosen direction for Flight and attitude towards the FS community can only be seen as wrong-headed and ignorant. You cannot change the fact that for most people, civilian simulators are boring, no matter how cool you make your press-releases and advertisements.
   
3. Downsize the Flight development team to only work on core-engine improvements, the aircraft and scenery developers would find work following implementing #4.
   
4. Release a free or minimally priced SDK ASAP (think P3D's $9.99 monthly developer subscription), and allow the third-party developers to feed the community that is biting at the bit for more content. MS has already proven that they are uncapable of this, and need to realize and accept it.
   

[tf51d 284]

MS wants the 20 million gamers to buy Flight DLC, all I could say I wish them luck, they are welcome to them. My biggest fear though with Flight ( and I know this is selfish) is that it draws a significant number of this community to it over FS2004 and FSX, or even X-Plane. If that happens (ad there are signs it's starting, though the cockpitless aircraft releases, thankfully seem to be slowing the trend) demand for FS addons will start to wane and we may begin to lose some of the developers (mostly the smaller ones) which would not be a good thing for this community. It worse because of 3rd party developers being locked out of Flight, they couldn't compete. It would be different if the market went to say X-Plane, as the developer would have the option of migrating their products to that platform to survive. So as selfish as it sounds IMHO the more support for Flight there is from this community, the greater the potential of really hurting both FS2004/FSX and the X-Plane community, and Ultimately the Flight community itself, as you'll only have MS to provide your content. I know there will be those that will say there is nothing stopping people from using both platforms. True, but history has shown us people tend to pick one platform and stick with it. That's why we have the FS2004/FSX wars or FSX vs X-Plane.

[HiFlyer 9,359]

Devon, while I agree with you to an extent, I think the biggest problem is we are so used to much more variety with past sims thanks to freeware and 3rd party deveopers that is does make us a bit spoiled and impatient. I have tried to look at Flight the way i do other games i play that release expansion packs and extras and in that context, I am really surprised MS didn't have more foresight in their marketing and not have more extras for us between regions to keep us occupied. With the first person camera view, I would be in Flight 24/7 is the whole world was just there.

 

I think MS took a very, very cautious approach to flight. (certain elements of the game and the small size of the team show a pretty tiny budget and many corners cut) There may have even been circles within the company who expected it to fail (Plan for the worst, hope for the best?) given that for many months before launch, the enthusiast market was in full revolt at anything short of FS11, and other markets were unproven.

 

Pure speculation on my part, but one wonders if the current relative success of the product has caught them by surprise, forcing them to play catchup.

[Guest Antlab]

True, but history has shown us people tend to pick one platform and stick with it. That's why we have the FS2004/FSX wars or FSX vs X-Plane.

 

Actually I think that MS made a big mistake just for the reason you described.

FSX was without doubt the main platform for flight simulation, and has been that for many years. It was practically the standard. MS chose to loose a similar leader series, so opening the door to other concurrent solutions, considering that, if there are not radical changes, Flight will remain a little chick, very far from the dreamed crowds of millions of users.

Obviously, with FSX six-years old and no more developed by MS, customers and developers are searching for a new platform with a plausible future. I bought for the first time X-Plane, because for several reasons I don't like the Prepar3D route, but in any case surely the next months will see some big movements and beginning of migrations.

 

A.

[lennycutler 0]

I lost interest when it was clear MS was in no hurry to implement Track IR.

 

Not too late to make this appeal to flight simmers....

 

Provide TrackIR support.

 

Never offer a plane for sale unless a full working VC is an option.

Provide for traffic, ATC, ILS.

Provide a game option for a gaming experience vs the simulation experience.

Look at how DCS implements its products - Simmers and less than simmers can choose features etc.

 

And most important....show that you are listening and are responsive to your customers....so far you at MS get an F in that category.

 

For those of you who just love this product just the way it is.....realize that MS will pull the plug on this when the revenue estimates are clearly not being met. They have a track record in that regard.