Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

eno94

SB or IB? 2700k or 3770k?

Recommended Posts

I would like to build myself a new rig, as my old one with the amd x6 has never fulfilled my dream of a smooth fsx, while using one of the PMDGs together with an aerosoft scenery.

i would like to keep my gpu, which is a gtx 570 oc. CPU and GPU are watercooled and I´ve always done a lot of extreme cpu overclocking, which leads me to the question: 2700k or 3770k?

Here in germany the price difference between those two is just about 30€ (3770k - 300€ / 2700k - 270€) and the only thing i´m interested in is whichone of the mentioned cpus does run the fsx better?

I´ve read a lot about IB these days and i don´t like the fact that the chip runs THAT hot at ~4.5 GHZ and on top of that it´s well known that the 2700k is an overclocking monster, which means that 4.8 to 5 ghz are the average i´ve seen here people having on avsim.

at the moment i would choose the asrock extreme4 z77 motherboard. would you recommend thisone? anyone having it?

 

another significant point is that i would like to keep my 12gb gskill 1600 ram, because i dont see the point in spending more than a hundred euros on something which just gives me a tiny percentage more performance. on top of that i´m still a pupil so i´m pretty much interested in whether its worth the money

so the question is: is it worth to buy IB with "slow" 1600 ram? should i go for sandy bridge?

 

this is my first avsim post so tell my if i made something wrong.

 

best wishes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I don't think it makes too much difference between SB or the new IB 3770K. Most people here are familiar with the SB systems as they have been out over a year and the CPU/MB overclocks very well. I understand IB will be just as easy from the few who have moved forward to the newer technology. I heard the z77 MB's are great and may upgrade to one since it can handle the SB2600K and SB2700K CPU's too. Everyone know SB runs FSX extremely well and that is happening with the IB chipset too. It definitely looks like you are on the right track.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went for the 2700K recently and it hits 4.8 with HT off, pretty easy and at low voltages 1.32 or less.

 

Good video, but he suggests 5.0 and 5.2 like they are easy on the 2700.

That is not my experience.

 

I can run SuperPi at 5.0 but cpu voltage needed is over 1.4, too high for me.

 

The difference between 4.8 and 5 or even 5.2 is pretty small in FSX,

I decided its not worth pushing the chip so hard.

 

Question is then if I had got a 3770 would it also be at 4.8 and giving a 10% boost over the 2700K?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hit 4.7 on my 3570K without much effort. I think I could get it to 4.8 if I really wanted to, or even higher if I de-lidded the chip. The Ivy chips can also use significantly faster RAM, and have PCIe 3.0 support. That feature set, combined with the fact that I can hit similar overclocks to SB, with a $170 chip, make Ivy the chip for me. People have really overblown the OC'ing limitations on the chip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO if you just want the "safe bet" go with a Sandy Bridge CPU, they're a very known quantity by now and no matter how you slice it, it would be a night and day upgrade from your AMD CPU in FSX. However if you just have to have the latest and greatest, it IS possible to get high clocks on IB, but either have to live with higher temps or go a little extreme and de-lid (remove the integrated heat spreader) and replace the TIM Intel uses from the factory with higher quality stuff.

 

FWIW, I have my 3570k doing 4.8ghz @ 1.30v which is giving me acceptable temperatures, but only just. But I do have plenty more to squeeze out of it if I switch to push/pull fans on the H100 and swap the TIM that comes with the H100 to IC Diamond or something along those lines. Those two changes alone should net around 5-8c.

 

Of course with IB you get PCIe-3.0 as well, but supposedly the specification might be added to existing motherboards according to another member here (I forget who said that), but I don't know how accurate that is.

 

edit: Oh and yes, like ramrunner800 said above me, the IB chips support much faster RAM, which is a very nice option if you can afford the current prices on the high end RAM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want the tradeoff for less OC performance but super fast memory, go for IB. BUT, if you plan to do some serious OC'ing then get a 2700K.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want the tradeoff for less OC performance but super fast memory, go for IB. BUT, if you plan to do some serious OC'ing then get a 2700K.

 

A number of people on this forum are runninng IB at 4.7-4.8 GHz, the same OC that you are. The tradeoff is overblown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember setting 1.40 V and watching a core i7 2700K effortlessly scale to 5.1 GHz; however the CPU cycles were largely wasted on slow memory.

Whats important is how many CPU cycles are working on FSX and not how many cycles are being made.

This is why at about 2600 MHz Cas10 Ivy Bridge becomes the superior performing platform for FSX.

 

CPU:Core i7-3770k @ 4.9GHz HT Off 1.41v

Mobo: Asus Maximus V Gene

RAM: G.Skill Trident X 8GB 2666 MHz (10-13-13-32-1N)

GPU: EVGA GTX 680

HDD 1: WD Velociraptor X2 1.82TB intel RAID 0

HDD 2: WD Caviar Black X2 1.82TB intel RAID 0

PSU: Cooler Master SP Gold 1200 W

Case: Cooler Master Cosmos S

Cooling: Blackice Extreme 360 / Laing D5 / Swiftech Apogee HD / feser one

OS: Windows 7 x64

 

HLJAMES

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i appreceiate all of your posts, thank you for these!!

nevertheless i still cant decide...

i dont want to buy an IB, get stuck there at 4.5, when i could have had a 2700k at 5ghz, because (i hope you all agree) in that case the sb would outperform the IB.

 

I remember setting 1.40 V and watching a core i7 2700K effortlessly scale to 5.1 GHz; however the CPU cycles were largely wasted on slow memory.

Whats important is how many CPU cycles are working on FSX and not how many cycles are being made.

This is why at about 2600 MHz Cas10 Ivy Bridge becomes the superior performing platform for FSX.

so you mean i should defenetly go for 2133+ ram with low latencys? is it worth the money?

if i did that, the IB would defenetely be the better choice, wouldn´t it?

i have to think about that, since that would cost me ~140€ more...

 

if i kept the 1600 memory the sb would be better??

 

taking to consideration the upcoming haswell, i would say that the ib sells more expensive, whenever i would decide to upgrade to haswell...

 

 

oooh i cant decide... this is difficult

please help me :shok:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, de-lidding an Ivy Bridge is a really good idea, provided you trust yourself with a razor blade. It made enough of a difference on mine so that it no longer throttles under IBT, which is a good start for me to begin pushing my OC higher again. I think I'll lap my IHS and H100 base before I do, though. Want to give myself some additional thermal headroom. I would now expect 4.8-4.9GHz to be very attainable, testing will tell though.

 

i appreceiate all of your posts, thank you for these!!

nevertheless i still cant decide...

i dont want to buy an IB, get stuck there at 4.5, when i could have had a 2700k at 5ghz, because (i hope you all agree) in that case the sb would outperform the IB.

 

 

so you mean i should defenetly go for 2133+ ram with low latencys? is it worth the money?

if i did that, the IB would defenetely be the better choice, wouldn´t it?

i have to think about that, since that would cost me ~140€ more...

 

if i kept the 1600 memory the sb would be better??

 

taking to consideration the upcoming haswell, i would say that the ib sells more expensive, whenever i would decide to upgrade to haswell...

 

 

oooh i cant decide... this is difficult

please help me :shok:

 

The 8GB 2133 CL9 kit I have shows a measurable performance difference compared to 8GB 1600 CL8 (in FSX, no less), something on the order of 10%! And that was only $70-80 on Newegg. If you want the absolute highest performance you have to pay a whole lot more than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recently went for an i7-2700K and 8GB 2133 GSkill, when I overclock to 4.8 at 1.32 V and push my GTX 580 to 932 GZ(temp stays below 74 C on air). The performance is very smooth. The FSXMark11 score is 33,70,52 (Min/Max/Avg) not much different than the IB system from TechGuyMax, but at a lot less heat. I won't be upgrading until 2 years from now, and the new system cost much less.

 

If you could wait, wait until the end of the year to see if Intel has a different chip, if you keep the GTX570, there is no point in going to IB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I recently went for an i7-2700K and 8GB 2133 GSkill, when I overclock to 4.8 at 1.32 V and push my GTX 580 to 932 GZ(temp stays below 74 C on air). The performance is very smooth. The FSXMark11 score is 33,70,52 (Min/Max/Avg) not much different than the IB system from TechGuyMax, but at a lot less heat. I won't be upgrading until 2 years from now, and the new system cost much less.

 

If you could wait, wait until the end of the year to see if Intel has a different chip, if you keep the GTX570, there is no point in going to IB.

 

Nice results, Anxu! I have just bumped my OC up to 4.8GHz though and shall resume testing after I've verified stability. I would expect the performance gap to widen a bit with both our chips at the same clock speed. As it stands now, my average FPS is about 8% higher than yours, with about a 2% clock speed deficit. Call it 10% difference at the same clocks.

 

You're right about heat though, stress testing really pushes up the temps on Ivy Bridge. Good thing FSX temps only get up to 70 or so on the hottest core during FSXMark 11 testing.

 

In all this we still have the intangible/unquantifiable aspect of performance which PCI-e 3.0 brings to the table and the benefits in autogen and texture loading it offers. Either way, the goal is good performance with the components we select in the configuration we desire, and with the ever-increasing march of technology, we now have several good options at multiple price points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi TechguyMaxC,

 

I was debating about going IB + GTX680, but GTX 680 was not available and I got a very good deal with my i7-2700K and GTX580 superclocked. I am using the 30 limit/nvidia 1/2 Vsync mod and the sim is very smooth. Coming from an i7-950, it is a huge Jump for me. Beside I bought the Asus Sabertooth Z77 board. May be next year, when Intel release a better IB, I will jump ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@TechguyMaxC

did you chance the termal paste of your 3770k?

if you did so.. its no wonder that you can manage clock speeds like these.. if you didnt you got a very good chip..

you had both chips, hadn´t you? whichone would YOU choose (i will go for 2133 ram) in my case?

 

@anxu

intels next big thing will be haswell.. that requires another socket though..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi TechguyMaxC,

 

I was debating about going IB + GTX680, but GTX 680 was not available and I got a very good deal with my i7-2700K and GTX580 superclocked. I am using the 30 limit/nvidia 1/2 Vsync mod and the sim is very smooth. Coming from an i7-950, it is a huge Jump for me. Beside I bought the Asus Sabertooth Z77 board. May be next year, when Intel release a better IB, I will jump ;)

 

You really can't go wrong building a flight sim rig with the amount of choices out there today (unless you go AMD).

 

@TechguyMaxC

did you chance the termal paste of your 3770k?

if you did so.. its no wonder that you can manage clock speeds like these.. if you didnt you got a very good chip..

you had both chips, hadn´t you? whichone would YOU choose (i will go for 2133 ram) in my case?

 

I did swap the thermal paste under the IHS and it made a tremendous difference in temps, however, my system was completely stable at 4.7GHz *before* doing this already. I'm stress-testing at 4.8GHz right now and will run through another FSXMark 11 test tonight.

 

@anxu

intels next big thing will be haswell.. that requires another socket though..

 

I look forward to Haswell also, and hope Intel doesn't pull the same stunt with artificially limiting thermal transfer to push buyers into their otherwise largely unattractive flagship platform (IMHO). If you can't offer any tangible performance difference at the platform level, perhaps you don't need multiple platforms? Of course this ruins ASPs and margins though so I don't expect them to do this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The FSXMark11 score is 33,70,52 (Min/Max/Avg)

 

Impressive results!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How´s da performance in FSX?

 

Don´t really understand this affection with numbers, graphs, and what not.

 

No.1 question:

 

Is it fluid, no stutters, no hickups, no womitting, no... etc. etc.?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites