I find Steve's response makes perfect sense. I love the Navajo, but still have very few hours on it.Another Dan.

>Can I PLEASE have some more replies from Navajo owners>regarding the flight damage modelling -- and less FSD bashing>and opinions re piracy. >>So far -- as far as I can see, the jury is still out as to>whether this a/c has the original modelling and whether it>works or not>>Thanks >>BarryI purchased this plane approximately one month ago and after about a dozen flights the right engine would not continue running. I checked the condition of the engine and saw that the right engine was damaged. I then repaired the engine as described in the manual and again attempted to start the engines and again the right engine would just begin to turn over, but then would stop. Again checked and found the front engine damaged. I changed my yoke slectors from rich to lean and clicked onto Ctrl E and both engines started correctly and continued running.. Thought the problem was correct, until after 25 hrs. I reset the hours to 0 and again I am faced with the same problem Any solution would be appreicated.Kenny G.

Tell ya what. I'm a FS nut, who owns the Navahog, and I'll start abusing my Panther tonight. I'll keep flying the thing as badly as I can until it breaks. I'll post my results as soon as I get the thing to break. Like Steve said, damage to engines varies from engine to engine. In order for the damage modeling to be realistic, the same must be true in FS, which is what Steve says they've accomplished.I'll provide all the specifics, but even then, you may not be able to reproduce the same event. I'm not affiliated with the FSD team, so you can trust that I will be unbiased.I'll run the flight test if the rest of you will stop the bickering.cheers!;)

I can personally say that I have burned up an engine or two. I remember the first time I took it out of the hanger and on upwind, my engines quit and there was plenty of black smoke coming from them.I had to put it down in a field just beyond the airport.Great detail! :)

OK, as promised, I worked the Navajo over real good tonight. I set the ambient temp outside to 103 (typical Oklahoma summer day.) I left KTUL and headed south. I left the throttle and the props full forward, full flaps, gear, and stayed level at 2500 feet. By Tyler Texas, the engines had quit, one at a time. So, there you have it. The engines will fail if you fly like an ####!By treating the engines even moderately bad, it will take a while to experience a failure.Wow, that was fun! Anyone else want me to trash another plane!:(

So, for you it doesn't work like FSD says. It should have accumulated that stress for hours, but yours, quits after just a few minutes of flying (I presume). I really don't know what to believe, for me, the engines haven't failed and I've flown many many hours of abuse, it doesn't matter anymore, if it's modeled to simulate real time then its a matter of time.Have fun,Carlos.

No, for me, it works JUST like FSD said. I flew for an hour and a half before having any problem. The old problem of the engines quitting after a few minutes is gone. It did quit after an hour of the WORST type of abuse. FSD is telling the truth. Maybe I should have made it more clear? Sorry:-) Beautiful plane, beautiful performance

Every dollar my wife and I earn I take seriously.Personally, I would get the Meridian. It is in a class all it's own.Nuff said.:)

Agreed, Barry if you don't have the Meridian please do yourself a favor and go get it. It's amazing the value you get for the money. Obviously, damaging models are in a really early stage and it's going to take time to refine and exploit its potential; unfortunately, it looks like the FS community is not ready for that yet.Best regards,Carlos.

>Obviously, damaging models are in a really early stage and>it's going to take time to refine and exploit its potential;>unfortunately, it looks like the FS community is not ready for>that yet.>Let's put damage models in "real" time, with the expectations that the sim pilot will treat the aircraft as though it's real. Otherwise, it's just wasted programming or animation for "kicks"; like flying into things to see what happens. I've already seen a request for a prop to seperate from the shaft on another forum, as an example.Make the poor simmer wait for a few hundred to few thousand hours for a failure! :-hah IMO --- partial panel failures are fine for practice. Blowing engines, prop seperations, having flaps rip off, and all the rest of it----- is a waste!L.Adamson

..been flying since 1989-never had any damage except when a line boy pulled the plane into a hanger-hit a ruff spot and dented the elevator causing a re skin of that baby.Agreed---damage modeling-not a high priority on my list....http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

Marc,This was a problem in the mixture controls, where it would not start unless automixture was selected. This is what was corrected. The damage model has not changed since day 1.Many times the problem of engines not starting is due to the Flight loaded in the simulator when booting the aircraft. Unless you start from a "clean" Flight, spawned from the correct template for that aircraft type, starting and electrical problems can sometimes be experienced when you have a number of differnt aircraft in your hangar. For example, if the Flight was created from the turboprop template, loading a twin piston prop using that same Flight will result in your engines conking out almost immediately.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

"This is not only my opinion, but alot of people I know with this addon are of the same opinion."That's news to us. We have been receiving no such feedback. So I really have no idea who you have been talking to. We do occasionally get a message from somone who wants to make the engines blow and can't make it happen, as someone in another thread indicated, but that is about it. Problems with engines starting/running are typically related to an incompatible Flight, or incorrect mixture control setting, as outlined in another post in this thread.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

Hi Tim,I had quite a bit of correspondence with Steve over this way back when the Navajo was released, and if you also remember there were many, many threads on your support forums around the same time, with the same problem.The SR stopped the constant engine failures, but also made engine failures extremely rare, if not totally absent.I would be interested to know how long the real Colman conversion's engines would last, roughly of course, flat out.Like many other simmers have said, the damage model is pretty low down on the ladder in terms of importance, which is why I did not continue to hound the problem and let it slip into the ether.Bottom line is the Navajo is a great addon, damage model or no damage model.Mind you the oil temps could really do with being a little more realistic, they still seem extremely high for the various flight stages.CheersDan.

How was the landing?;)