Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jive1

Why would a AI aircraft refuse to turn

Recommended Posts

Hey!

I have one of the WWII Fighters in use, the Bf109e Messerschmitt and when I use that as an AI aircraft, it refuses to turn enroute. I.e. Taxiing and take of, that runs to be OK, but once in the air it refuses to turn when the flightplan says it has to turn to another airport or reference point...

And at this same situation I never see this aircraft arriving on the airport where it is expected according to the TTools compiled flightplan...

I don't know wether these two characteristics have any relation one to eachother, but that is what I see that happens...

Is there any explanation for this Phenomenon?

Greetz

Jive1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hey!

I have one of the WWII Fighters in use, the Bf109e Messerschmitt and when I use that as an AI aircraft, it refuses to turn enroute. I.e. Taxiing and take of, that runs to be OK, but once in the air it refuses to turn when the flightplan says it has to turn to another airport or reference point...

And at this same situation I never see this aircraft arriving on the airport where it is expected according to the TTools compiled flightplan...

I don't know wether these two characteristics have any relation one to eachother, but that is what I see that happens...

Is there any explanation for this Phenomenon?

Greetz

Jive1

Some aircraft will not turn when instructed by ATC and will continue to be nagged to turn. I don't think there is any alternative than to exchange the performance fiiles with another aircaft of similar ability.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought (could be wrong) that AI aircraft only follow direct routes from origin to destination. They don't make enroute turns, although they should follow ATC vectors on departure and arrival.

 

That said, I used to have an AI EMB190 which refused to climb. A few weeks of constant "please expedite your climb to FLxxx" was enough to make me change it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happened to me too! I was at SFO, and waiting to take off when this bloody Delta jet refused to turn from the runway, after it landed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

The AIR file of that plane does not have the required sections for AI use. You will need to either replace that AIR file (and the sim= line) with one that does work (from a similar AI plane), or find out what is missing in that AIR file and use AirEd to replace those sections from another AIR file.

 

Hope this helps,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought (could be wrong) that AI aircraft only follow direct routes from origin to destination. They don't make enroute turns, although they should follow ATC vectors on departure and arrival.

 

ATC will on occassion however instruct AI aircraft to make heading changes in order to keep the AI on the direct route 'track' when there is a crosswind factor.

 

To the OP: Using a user flyable aircraft as a AI can all to frequently be very frustrating. It is not uncommon at all to see them do something(s) really strange. The fix for this is don't use them or see Tom Gibson's post above.

 

Regards,

Mel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jive1, which Bf 109 model do you use and for which purpose?

I have Bf 109s as AI planes, too. I use Paul Rebuffats model of a Bf 109 G-2 and G-2 trop and it seems to do what I want it to do well. I don't know if it is still available for download here and there; try this link:

http://www.myzone59.com/rebuffat/accueil.php

 

I even found Swiss liveries somewhere in the net.

 

By the way, this model is quite old now but I still fly it myself (after adding another panel, sound, exhaust flames and smoke effects) - together with the AI planes I can fly as "Rotte":

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jive1, I have a fairly basic question. How do you know it doesn't turn?

 

If you have flown alongside or near it, your presence can throw AI aircraft off an they will just chug off into the wild blue yonder. One way to avoid that is to track the aircraft itself from chase view, for which the default, I think, is Ctrl+shift+F to cycle forward, and Ctrl+Shift+V (or W) to cycle through all AI in the other direction. You may need to set this up in control assignments.

 

Also I suggest you park at the field nearest where you think the trouble happens, switch off your engine then start tracking.

 

Not turning, and not arriving, may be part of one problem, or two very different problems. For example, flying beside the AI might disturb turns, and not arriving may be an AFCAD issue.

 

And AI do make some unexpected turns. I have tracked them on simple circuits and sometimes they are not square, but involve a few doglegs. I've even had AI appear to steer around landscape, quite unexpected but nice when it seems to happen.

 

I often do as Tom and others say - drop the air file from a reliable AI aircraft into the new AI plane folder. I also change the aircraft.cfg to aircraft.txt, then copy over the aircraft.cfg from the same folder I got the air file from. Into that, working from the renamed aircraft.txt, I copy (and overwrite) all the [fltsim.X] entries, and the sections for [lights], and [contact points]. Also, if it's there, the [General] section. As Tom said, you will need to change the "sim=" line in each [fltsim.X] entry to identify the replacement air file.

 

Don't know if this is accepted practice but it's worked fairly reliably for me.

 

Harald, nice screen shot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harald, nice screen shot!

Thanks, it's me flying behind an AI plane. Only problem is that the speed of this "AI" Bf 109 model is too high so that I had to apply full throttle constantly.

And if you wonder where are the historic insignia - showing them in public is a crime in Germany.

 

P.S. I have "converted" a Mi-2 helicopter into an AI heli using an .air file of another AI heli, too. For me, the result counts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I understand the issue re the markings. I have the FS conversions to "Golden Wings" and "Silver Wings" on separate drives, and the Golden Wings has a few quick adjustments I can do to select the 1920s-early 1930s, the immediate prewar period, or early WW2. I'm going to have to add the marking to the Lufthansa aircraft for the later period! Interestingly, I have almost no purpose-designed AI aircraft in Golden Wings, nearly all are converted user-flyable models. Some needed no conversion to work well. You can probably get away with it in the 1930s, when skies were less busy!

 

As for helicopters, in my modern FS9, I am doing the same as you are, it's satisfying to see them. I also have a lot flying in "Silver Wings" - mostly in places like Vietnam! Here's a crude illustration. All six AI helos are headed for "LZ Xray" out of Camp Holloway (Pleiku) either on strafing runs or for 'dust-off' and - a case in point to this thread - me flying this close tended to confuse the AI engine and they sailed off towards Cambodia!

 

ss1424.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is very nice, too.

Far away from being a fan of German regime "in the 30ies/40ies", I fly this Bf 109 as oldtimer aircraft within my virtual club, the "Messerschmidt Freunde Dresden" (Dresden Messerschmidt Friends). It's just a Bf 109 of the 21st century (see pictures) with some fundamental modern avionic, and it's fun to start the DB 605 for a quick GA flight to Prague or Zurich... (especially when surrounded by countless Cessnas and Pipers)

 

 

 

 

 

And regarding to helicopters, there are the beautiful AI models of Sergey Bunevich from Kiev, Ukraine. There is already a Mi-8 with vertical startup and landing and a Mi-26; and - finally! - a Mi-2 coming soon (I hope very soon). Following wikipedia, you could meet Mi-2 and Mi-8 over Cambodia and Vietnam, but possibly not yet in the Vietnam war aera.

 

But now it would be interesting to read the OP's use of Bf 109s as AI planes...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I agree, I separate the regime of the 40s from the technology. I know of the AI Mil helicopters but wasn't sure about purchasing the MI8 (I think it was) as I didn't know anything about the company processing the money. MAIW have some good helo air files I sometimes transplant for personal use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know of the AI Mil helicopters but wasn't sure about purchasing the MI8 (I think it was) as I didn't know anything about the company processing the money.

 

Yes, it's off-topic - but I did purchase it and had no problems with the transaction via Skrill/Moneybookers. In addition, I had nice mail contact with Sergey. In the meantime exactly 319 Mi-8 are flying around in my sim "all over Siberia".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the insight, Harald - I think I will reconsider buying the Mil after all! ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites