There's been a lot of intense discussions lately on these forums regarding the RFP 747-200 panel. Here's an idea. A lot of simmers like me can't spend the time learning a complete start up and flying product. We just want to load a plane, some real weather, a flight plan and go. Why doesn't RFP do a "lite" version of their product? I'd love to have their panel, but I don't have the extra time to spend on the long learning curve and long setup for each flight. I gave up on SSW for this reason. I spent so much time with my head in the manual trying to get it set up and started, I never got to fly. The guys that want the more complex version can have theirs and some of us can have the "load and fly" version.It's just a thought. I bet sales would jump.For me the PMDG and PSS packages are just about right if you want a more elaborate experience.Lee

There's a manual called "Get acquainted" it's a 30 pg manual that leads you from startup to land, take a look to it maybe you notice that the plane is not that hard.Jos

Sometimes the enjoyment of an add-on is the learning curve. Every aircraft in the real world has different flying characteristics and procedures and seeing Flight Simulator is a simulator of these things, I'm glad these uniqueness

Well, my favorite is PMDG, hardly a "crash and burn" game, because it seems to balance complexity with practicality and is outstanding in the end. It's probably the best add-on for FS9 at the moment.Lee

Wow dude calm down! Many of us work 40-50+ hours a week, the time I have to fly is about 1-2 hrs a night, MAX.So this means programming a FMC or going through a complete checkup plus learning each system for a few hours, et al. Well I hope you get my point. I wish I could fly in real life, and this is the next best thing. Just hope in a plane, and fly! Anywhere I want, etc. Without all the hastle of the startup procedures, programming and other stuff. If I wanted to do all that I'd be a real pilot. I have enough stress in real life, I don't need to be managing an airplane and its own computer after a long day of work.Why do people take everything so personally around here?

with that amount of time you don't really have to look at a 747 at all, given that a normal 747 flight would take 6 to 7 hours at least without ground time.Ralph and his crew made a choice to go to the limit, if that's not your thing then you're not their intended audience.As someone suggested, go to "perfect" flight and get some of their imperfect offerings. You might get the level of complexity you want from those (but the level of quality will be likewise lower)...

is it too much to ask for quality, realism, but not the pages and pages of checklists? I want to fly something beautiful and realistic. Thats fine if all they wanted was a small audience, then small sales follow that as well. I am just saying I'd love a virtual co-pilot to do all the fuel transfer, startup procedure, etc. and just fly for 2 or so hours. I know the 747 isn't a short hopper, but I still want to fly the jumbo.

Hi Alex, There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you desire. I know exactly what you mean, as I was once there (limited time after a long day at the office). In fact there is no right and wrong in FS. Some like to spend their time in spot view, watching the plane fly on AP. Other's like to watch AI traffic, other's like to go low and slow VFR in a Piper and admire the scenery. There's myriad ways to get enjoyment / education from FS, and not a single one is right or wrong or better or worse than another.If you just want to push the throttles home, and see how a 747 handles, without going through the real deal of getting her going, that too is just fine.Someone who wants to simulate real world procedures, and take 30 minutes before taxiing out is no more right or better than someone who just wants to get the bird off the runway and have some fun.That's the beauty of FS, you can do with it as you please, unlike real life.BTW, MS has this base already covered. The default 747 has fine flight dynamics, and is easy to get going.In fact, most complex add-on does not need a "lite" version, just the ability to save a flight with everything (or almost) up and running and ready to go, then you can have the best of both. Want to have some fun? Take this challenge I gave to folks at my forum a couple years ago:1. Start with the default C-172 or C-182 at JFK.2. "Sock" in the weather (1/2 mile visibilty max, some rain and maybe a bit of wind)3. Take off, and at 500' immediately fail your vacuum system.4. Continue the flight on what instruments remain working and shoot the ILS into RW 6 at Teterboro (TEB). It's a short flight, but....5. No, you cannot use the autopilot!I had a whole bunch of folks doing it, and having fun with it (no one crashed either), and you'll find that just as much fun, very educational, and every bit as challenging as starting an APU, and programming a computer to fly your computer for you. In fact, in real life, you can't even get near a 747's left seat until you have the skills to complete a challenge like that.There's much fun and learning to be had in FS, and not all of it comes in the form of start-up procedures and FMC programming.Or, take that default 747 or 737, and just fly around, as low and slow as she will go, and admire the scenery.BTW, a 747, despite all its complexity, flies just like a big Cessna! Very easy to hand fly, but just remember to start your flare at about 50'.Have fun, as it's your free time! ;-)Regards,Lou

Hi,I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before. I have Version 1 of the RFP 747-200, the Classic Whale. It's excellent, and with it I can do a cold and dark start up if I feel like it, or, just get in and go if I want. Well, at least after altering the fuel load anyway.I've considered getting Version 2. From what I've heard of it sounds pretty realistic. Although it sounds time consuming, I wouldn't mind taking the time here and there when I feel like it and I'm not constrained to just having an hour or two to fly. Perhaps Version 2 was made for people who want the ultimate realism and have the time to devote to it.Anyway Lee, have you considered just getting Version 1? It's a real beauty too. :) Take a look at this screenshot. I've posted it before in the screenshot forum and some folks said that it could almost be mistaken for a real one!Regards,Jim

version 1 is no longer available for sale.Unless you can get someone to part with his CD version (NOT a copy of course) there's no way to get it.

Please allow me to quote directly off of the first page of the RFP website:"What's Ready for Pushback?This is one of the most complex simulations on the market today and without question the best available simulation of the Boeing 747-200 for use with Microsoft Flight Simulator. It is a simulation that you will either love or hate depending on your level in the hobby. There is very seldom any in-between with this and it was designed with the hard core simmer in mind. It's not for the beginner . .You can easily become overwhelmed or discouraged if you are not an advanced simmer and we have seen this with the "First Generation". This "Second Generation" simulation contains a lot of real world functions that go beyond where we left off in the earlier version and will require even an advanced simmer to buckle down, roll up the shirt sleeves and get into the 325 page plus manual. And to make it even more attractive, we will be making a total of nearly 60 aircraft liveries available at no charge over a short period of time. This is not for the FMC flyer who is just interested in pushing a few buttons and watching the aircraft fly all by itself. Comprehensive Documentation . . You will be pleased to hear that we have also included several flight scenarios to get you started plus we have several videos available for download that will walk you through some of the more complex phases of flying this aircraft and add to that over 325 pages of documentation. The manuals are divided into 4 sections to help make it easier. Some of the information in the manuals relates directly to the real aircraft and is supplied for information purposes only. Other parts of the manuals deal directly with this simulation and must be studied before even something as simple as starting the engines is attempted."It seems to me that that pretty clearly states what RFP is about; if this is not what you are looking for then you should not buy it. This product is not intended for everyone; it is directed at those people who want to try and experience what it is/was like to fly the classic 747-200 as closely as it is possible to do within the confines of FS9. People like Alex, who have stated that they don't want to read the directions, shouldn't buy it; it isn't directed at them and they aren't going to be happy. There is no reason to beat this to death any further; we did not intend for this to be a mass-market addon and it isn't. There are no plans to make it one that I am aware of. A "lite"version, while it might well be a commerical sucess, would be a whole different product, directed at a whole different audience. Ferraris are not marketed to people who drive Sedan de Villes ( usually) and the customer of the one is not likely to be happy with the other. And, I would be willing to bet that Ferrari owners read the instructions at least once. I know I would.....Ed GreenKCLThttp://www.panelshop.com/DEV.jpg

>There's myriad ways...Hi Lou!This has nothing whatever to do with the thread, but I simply wanted to say thank you for the correct use of the word "myriad..." :)It is so frequently misused (even by highly educated, articulate professionals!) that it was a real treat to see it used correctly! ;)

Alex if you want

Jim let me make this clear because some of what your saying doesn't make since to me:First of all RFP Version 2 is not that hard to understand and the 747 in Flight Simulator is not that time consuming...All one needs to know is how to get the APU started after ground power is requested and then start the engines. RFP offers a video so there is no reading required, all you have to do is watch it (you don't even have to listen to the sound). Just follow what the little mousey pointer does on the screen. Not that hard people... :-roll Next all one needs to know is how to properly configure the autopilot to capture the ILS on landing, once again there's a video offered and once again there's no reading required... Watch the video once or twice and you got it. Just 10 minutes of your time. :-roll THAT'S IT...What more can these guys do to show you how to use the systems, you don't even have to read. What's even better is your learning actual 747 procedures. I can't understand what I'm hearing on this thread. No other developer offers short training videos to basically hold your hand and teach you how to operate their aircraft. Even some freeware requires you to read. Once you have the RFP 747 Version 1 or 2 up and running, it's like flying any other aircraft in FS... If you know these two things you've got it (for the most part). As far as flying six hour flights, I usually get to my cruising altitude and jack the simulation speed up to it's fastest setting... A flight from Toronto to London only takes me 20 to 30 minutes at the most. You don't have to sit in front of the computer for 6+ hours!!! :-eek Not counting the PMDG FMC, there is no aircraft in FS that's as complicated as people make it out to be. All it takes is a little reading to see how to first start the engines and next how to configure the autopilot during flight... That's it. I can't understand why learning two simple procedures is so hard for some people... :-hmmm

Wait a second buddy, I never said it was "too hard" to learn. I said I don't have time to dedicate to learning new procedures right now. Of course I can do it, this isn't rocket science, its basics. You follow a checklist and thats it. Not difficult at all. BUT I am saying it is time consuming, and I don't have the time to sit at the gate and program the FMC, or adjust the fuel distribution, etc.If somebody can find a website that sells version 1 of RFP I'd be extremely greatful, thanks!