MD-11 vs 737NGX experience

[acko52 13]

Gday Gents

Well the credit card took a serious hit yesterday, i got the MD11, and the AOA training, so thats going to keep me busy for awhile( it will stop me from looking to see if the T7 is released every day, yeah right). Thanks for all the articles, i didnt know of those accidents, Anyway im off to learn the MD11, got to love the heavys

Jeff

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Good stuff Jeff! Let me know how it goes, ok? Glad for ya :smile:

[737guy 0]

Guys,

 

I can tell you, as a former FO on the MD-11, it was a great aircraft, and all of us who flew it, loved the type. My airline replaced it with ETOPS rated 757/767 and in some instances 777 for purely economic reasons, it was never a safety issue at all.

 

It could be a challenge to land at times, but all in all, a great ship that I loved flying.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

I'm reminded of the phrase from Star Trek - "Resistance is futile" :lol:

[Pod562 0]

I loved the PMDG MD11 when it was first released, a far more interesting plane to fly then the 737 or 747 (IMHO) but the graphics are looking a little tired now that I have flown the NGX and unless they update them, which I doubt, I probably won't fly it again. I am even considering selling my manuals. Yes, I know that is sacrilege:)

 

Bill Miller

[acko52 13]

Gday gents

Glenn, your comment above, so, so true (resistance...............futile).

I havent actually made it into the cocpit yet , just started reading the manuals, ( all chinese to me, being a boeing man) but im sure ill get there.

Every documentry about the DC10 ive seen the pilots that fly it , love to fly it, so that should tell you heaps,who better to know than the pilots that fly it. Anyway i better get back to the books.

Jeff

ps are we there yet(t7)

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Good stuff - thanks Jeff & Bill. Well, I'll mull it over. I'm tempted to wait for the 777, but I sure could use a heavy freighter sooner than later. We shall see :smile:. Thanks for the input for sure!

[Kerlix 99]

here's an pretty good summary of all the accidents and incidents involving the MD11: http://www.airlinesa...om/faq/faq9.htm

 

I get the feeling whoever wrote this set out to make the MD sound like a soul-hunting demon from aviation hell. But everyone is entitled to their opinion...

 

As for MD-11 vs NGX: The MD was the first PMDG purchase I made. While it is beginning to feel "aged", I will always love it. For a while, I never really hand-flew it. It was wheels up, AP on until rollout. Then I bought the AOA training and it really pushed me to hand fly the bird as much as possible. Maybe I just wasn't a good "pilot" before. Or maybe the MD really is that hard to master. Either way, I feel I'm much better because of it.

 

It's systems simulation/handling characteristics/literally everything definitely set the bar as far as what I now consider "Acceptable" in an add-on. I still take her out fairly often. Occasionally I get the itch to do an 11-hour flight around the globe and I find nothing more satisfying than disconnecting the AP once established and bringing it down for a perfect landing.

 

Which reminds me....from the website mentioned above....

 

This airplane doesn't really have a "slot" when you are on final; it doesn't seem to really stay at a trimmed AOA [angle of attack] /deck angle at a specific power setting/airspeed. As such, the pilot is constantly making little corrections, like flying a dynamically unstable fly-by-wire fighter with the computer out.

 

I understand that this may have come from a pilot with substantial experience actually flying the plane, AND we're talking FSX here......but I've always found the plane to be very stable as far as approaches go. As long as everything is trimmed correctly, the plane seems to ride rails down to the flare. Anyone else share this guy's opinion? I'm just curious.

 

Concerning the NGX:

 

Seriously? Do I really have to explain it? I think it's obvious. The systems, handling, graphics, etc. are the best there is (IMO). I'm currently flying a Delta -800 in retro colors KATL to the Dominican Republic (never flown there before).

 

For me, they each are amazing in their own ways. I think (for me) the greatest dream ever would be a MD-11 V2 created with the NGX engine/updated graphics. I couldn't see myself wanting anything else.

[joona_ 30]

I've been flying the MD-11 for over 2 years in the FS9 and later FSX now. I couldn't imagine myself flying any other plane. I tried with the FTM82 for few months but later returned back to the 11. I also bought the 747 and tried that for few months but same thing happened again. Until the 777 is released, I'll continue to fly with the MD-11 only - almost daily. I have done only one autoland long time ago when testing the systems. Other than that, no matter what the weather or situation is, on takeoff I'll hand fly all the way to FL290 and on approach, I'll switch off the autopilot (man I love that AUTOPILOT AUTOPILOT sound, need to listen to it at least 10 times lol :ph34r: ) by 10 000ft and handfly all the way to the runway. I just love hand flying this bird. It's perfect :wub: :wub: :wub:

[Krister 51]

It's really sad that the PMDG MD11 didn't sell well, because so many people are missing out on so much fun! I l love everything about it - the sounds in the cockpit, the VC, that it's different. I've had my fair share of "hey why is it doing that", but it's usually been because I've tried to fly it as a Boeing! I also appreciate that it has the same incredible athmosphere in FS9 as in FSX. In my FS9 world only the iFly 737 has (almost) the same ambience as the MD11.

 

Perhaps PMDG should have a 50% sale on the MD11 so that more people would discover it - it certainly deserves it!

[JD396 38]

The MD-11 is a great addon of one of my favorite planes. I'd recommend it to anybody. I think the main reason it's not as big of a deal as it should be is because the aircraft itself never sold well.

 

I think as far as the real world goes, it was simply born at the worst possible time. It hit a market where it had to directly compete against more efficient ETOPS aircraft, and the timing of the Boeing/MD merger pretty much killed it. The same goes for the 717, I think. Boeing had absolutely no incentive to continue producing a competitor for the 737.

 

I've read though that the MD-11F works out better economically in some applications than the other frieghters because of the wide fuselage - it can be loaded right up to max ZFW whereas the other freighters often bulk out before reaching capacity. I love heading out to the airport to watch the FedEx and UPS flights take off at night after the passenger flights are mostly done for the day. You can feel the power from a half mile away - much more than you can with the 767s, A330s, and the 777s we get here! No more 747s. Boo.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Man, this thread seems to be nothing but positives on the MD-11 side. I suspect I'll have to bite on this one after all. Can you folks tell me how the FMS compares with the NGX? I'm not looking for it to be as fully featured since this aircraft is from a different era, thus it shouldn't be. But as a Boeing driver, do you think the transition to the MD-11 would take long?

 

Thanks.

 

Oh, one other question - in "earlier days" of FSX, on engine start the engines would spool to max power before settling down to idle. They "cured" that with the 737NGX. Does the MD-11 engines spool up realistically or does it suffer from the "FSX-go-like-heck-for-the-first-minute" issue?

[xxJohnxx 21]

Man, this thread seems to be nothing but positives on the MD-11 side. I suspect I'll have to bite on this one after all. Can you folks tell me how the FMS compares with the NGX? I'm not looking for it to be as fully featured since this aircraft is from a different era, thus it shouldn't be. But as a Boeing driver, do you think the transition to the MD-11 would take long?

 

Thanks.

 

Oh, one other question - in "earlier days" of FSX, on engine start the engines would spool to max power before settling down to idle. They "cured" that with the 737NGX. Does the MD-11 engines spool up realistically or does it suffer from the "FSX-go-like-heck-for-the-first-minute" issue?

 

Hi,

 

The MD-11 FMS is practically nearly as good as the ones in the B737s. Well it doesn't have a colored display, and one or two things aren't there but altogether it is just as capable as the ones built in into the NGX. At least it seems so in the simulator, although the RTA feature isn't implanted in the NGX while it is in the MD-11.

It is different to the NGX FMS but you will learn it to, in my opinion it is a little bit more logical than the NGX FMS is, as you as an example enter SID, STARS and all the waypoints/airways basically on the same page and some things like that (as said for me). :wink:

 

And yes, as it is PMDG, the MD-11s three engines spool up as they should, just as it is in the NGX.

 

Best regards,

 

John

[HighTowers 1,434]

Gday Gents

Well the credit card took a serious hit yesterday, i got the MD11, and the AOA training, so thats going to keep me busy for awhile( it will stop me from looking to see if the T7 is released every day, yeah right). Thanks for all the articles, i didnt know of those accidents, Anyway im off to learn the MD11, got to love the heavys

Jeff

 

You will love the AOA training. Yes its somewhat difficult to hold this bird manually, but their is so much automation built in, its a joy to work with. I was just comparing it to the NGX which has much less automation. So many switches which have to be manually checked. MD11 just does it automatically. Example, packs off on start. Auto tune the nav when you pick your ILS in the FMC. Speaking of the FMC its great to work with and by way of this bird I finally understand working the FMCs much better in all planes.

 

As the problem reported in its idiosyncrasies with actual flying, it is hard to land manually as it does come in fast and if you dont get it just right your hooped.

Have fun guys.

[Loren Larsa 9]

The FMS on the MD-11 will give you headaches at first, but once you get in the flow of it and have read the manual for it, you will call the NGX FMC a stoneage computer with a lot less logic.

As for landing, the MD-11 is a little tricky, but the retard power at 20-30 feet will help drastically in getting her down, just avoid that bounce, even though the model PMDG have, features assistance in that regard (The MD-11 will push the nose down for you upon landing to counteract the rise from the spoilers.)

 

Once you have the FMS down and in your fingers, you can take the MD-11 anywhere and get on with your airline buisness if you use software for that, the aircraft can pretty much handle herself once you are done with the takeoff roll, the level of automation puts the 747, 737 and possibly even the 777 to shame.

Sadly PMDG didn't get the fully automated de-icing system in on their MD-11 that is also equipped on some of these birds, but yes, thats how much automation you can do in this girl.

And if you want, you can disable the automatic controllers and do it manually NGX style if you want, but you will have some issues doing that with the fuel system though, a lot to keep track of there if you want to keep your CG within limits on a long haul flight.