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asanal

Out of Memory

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I just put this post into P3D forum.

I was really surprised "Out of memory " issue. I never had memory problem, with FSX full load add-ons.

 

That is second time P3D is stopped my flight and informed " P3D will stop. Your PC run out memory and shutting down" .

My PC has:

Total Physical Memory 6.00 GB

Available Physical Memory 4.14 GB

Total Virtual Memory 17.7 GB

Available Virtual Memory 15.4 GB

Page File Space 11.7 GB

How much memory do we need to operate P3D? :

Thanks,

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I have now decided that until they release a proper 64bit version I will not be installing P3D. When are developers going to pull finger and start writing using 64bit code with these things? 64bit capable machines have been around for so many years now it just isn't funny. The way I see it this software has no future until they address this - addons are only going to get more complicated but if the sim isn't able to use more than 4GB of memory we will forever be limited. I think they need to get this sorted before releasing V2 at all costs.

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Yea it runs in a 64bit environment but it's 32bit code so isn't capable of addressing more than 4GB of RAM just like FSX (unless I am woe-fully misinformed but I doubt it - if it was true 64bit code it would be getting posted all over the forum). They really need to sort that. I've got 16GB of RAM and I've seen one crash at a high-density airport due to FSX maxxing out it's memory pool.

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Sorry to hear about your OOM problem. But so far (Imight be wrong) your the only one having this issue. I fly my NX all around and threw ORBX, GEX and UT scenry and never experience an OOM. I've had shut down due to dll incompadibilities but no OOM.

The amount of physical memory has nothing to do with OOM's. It has to do with your VAS or (Virtual Address space). List your computer specs and OS I'm sure someone here can assist you.

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Might try reading the LM Learning center material before pointing fingers. Lots of good tuning and settings info there. If not you can always ask for a refund.

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Sorry to hear about your OOM problem. But so far (Imight be wrong) your the only one having this issue. I fly my NX all around and threw ORBX, GEX and UT scenry and never experience an OOM. I've had shut down due to dll incompadibilities but no OOM.

The amount of physical memory has nothing to do with OOM's. It has to do with your VAS or (Virtual Address space). List your computer specs and OS I'm sure someone here can assist you.

 

Do you run your LOD Radius setting higher than 4.5? It's usually the number one culprit which sucks because setting it up to 7.5 gets rid of the bluriness of textures in the distance so they look crisp even miles away.

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Do you run your LOD Radius setting higher than 4.5? It's usually the number one culprit which sucks because setting it up to 7.5 gets rid of the bluriness of textures in the distance so they look crisp even miles away.

 

Yes mine is set at 6.5

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I've run P3d for a a week or so now and I did get 1 Out of Memory error so far. I'm running pretty much maxed sliders so I dropped LOD to 5.5... Honestly I can't tell the difference because I have so much autogen. So far no more errors. I've sort of come to expect a CTD from time to time, and as long as it's truly every once in a while I can live with it. FSUIPC has a great feature that autosaves, so I set it to autosave every 2 minutes. If and when it crashes I'm back up and running at the same point in the flight within minutes, and hopefully quicker when my new SSD arrives Monday!

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What I noticed in P3D, why I was getting some OOMS - there is no startup menu, so what you do is load your default flight, then you change the aircraft, airport, maybe even time. Each of those reloads puts more usage into VAS. I checked. And with sceneries from FSX, whichever you are using, they tend to be quite memory intensive, thus pushing the VAS really high up. I did some tests around ORBX PNW.

What you can do is set up your flight as you want it, but do it with a default cessna or so, otherwise unexpected errors might occur. Then save it, clicking on "make this default". Reload sim.

 

I was getting OOM errors in Windows 7 with 8 GB of ram with FSX all the time, especially with Orbx airports; until I used this:

 

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/947246

 

Hmm, what does this really do? OOMs happen when VAS usage hits 4GB. What does this "setting" do for FSX VAS usage?

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Let me update my OOMS problem. After my third OOMS on same flight plan (KCHS-KJFK) and around same location ( 100 nm to JFK), I also,realized one more major problem developed. This one was an eye opener. If some one told me GPU can reach 89 C, I will not believed. But my GPU GF x480 in REXE clouds setting reached 89C and FPS was around 5-7. I consider my Dell Aurora is a powerful PC, I never had 5-7FPS and GPU Temp around 89C, Flying with REXE heavy weather , Temp will be around 60 -67 and will remain there.

To avoid damage to GPU. I immediately shut down the PC.

My next steps were:

a) I lower the sliders from max to dense and lower, ( Made a test flight in same route. NO OOMS)

 

B) One day before temperature and FPS problems started. I downloaded new Nvidia GF 306.2 driver. After experiencing these unusual problems, I decided to go back 304.48 driver and deleted 306.2 driver.

 

Here is the eye opener,in my next test flight, there were no NO MORE high temperatures, FPS went to normal showing 29/30 (Targeted FPS 30). During the change of windows screen from Full mode to Windowed mode screen flickering is Gone.

 

I don't blame Nvidia GF 306.2. May be I selected wrong driver for Nvidia X480 Extreme GPU. But,when I run the auto selection of Nvidia driver tool, the result was 306.2 for my 480.

 

I think, before to jump conclusions I have to understood the problem clearly and search suitable solutions to the problems, then make the changes, If doesn't work get help more knowledgeable members.

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there is no startup menu, so what you do is load your default

 

Come on LM make a startup menu!! :biggrin:

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Hmm, what does this really do? OOMs happen when VAS usage hits 4GB. What does this "setting" do for FSX VAS usage?

 

I have no idea, all I know is that it works, and I no longer have OOM issues. Now its just d3d crashes with ENBSeries. If someone can solve that then FSX would be magical.

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After discussing it with L.M. It appears the main culprit for OOM errors is due to the use of Shader 3.0 which increases the amount of graphics memory being used. Turning down the LOD_Radius setting solved the problem on my system. It also seems that with the release of V 1.4 some core changes have had an effect on how tweaks that used to be applied may actually be causing problems. I used to use the BUFFERPOOL tweak quite successfully, with 1.4 it seemed to cause me grief. By eliminating the line entirely, the sim now performs better and I have had no OOM errors either. It seems with each incremental update, cfg tweaks are becoming fewer and fewer. This I believe is a good thing. I now believe it is better to use the default cfg file generated, then tweak and test, and only if you experience problems with the default settings.

 

Since FSX only uses Shader 2.0 the memory usage is lower and thus things could be maxed out without the error, but it doesn't look as good.

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Where is the Shader 3 most noticable? I tried over water, and saw little differences only. Ground - no difference. Clouds - I see some differences in lighting, but this might be also a texture thing. Personally, I will take no OOM with 6.5, ORBX and NGX over Shader3 anyday.

 

If memory usage (VAS) is increased, so must limit be increased, ergo 64bit native.

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I just purchased P3D this weekend and installed on my computer. I run FSX maxed out with FSDT and NGX at 4096 texture load etc. and have never had an OOM issue.

 

I loaded up P3D and put in my NGX (with a HD paint of delta from McPhat) at the start up airport which is KGNU. I had only made one change to the p3d.cfg file which was increasing texture max load to 4096.

 

Within 2 minutes of loading I got an OOM (First one EVER!!!). I repeated this cycle over and over and over constantly getting an OOM before even moving the aircraft. Finally after a couple hours of deleting this and that I finally loaded up a default PMDG paint which is not as hard on memory as McPhat. I was able to takeoff and fly out away from KGNU.

 

While I was flying I opened up the Task manager to watch my memory usage and of course around KGNU it was around 3 to 3.1 million KB usage. Only maybe 100,000 kb away from an OOM. Well all the sudden it dropped memory usage down to 2.1 million KB within a couple seconds.

 

Long story short its the scenery causing the OOM. Norfolk is a scenery item in P3D that they made custom for this product. Disabled the sceney and no more OOM here. LM also has made custom scenery for some other areas in the scenery list so be careful going over those.

 

I don't know if it was this OP or somebody that said they were having OOM on a route between CHS and JFK. That means they were probably flying directly over this scenery which was causing an OOM.

 

I may be on the wrong track but this fixed my OOM issue for the 5 hours I've had it installed. Hope this helps somebody.

 

Sean

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-_- OOM memory usage cannot, I repeat, cannot be measured with the task manager. (I kinda gotta start talking like Mike)

 

I am tired of explaining it ever and ever again.

 

Sean,

 

it was around 3 to 3.1 million KB usage. Only maybe 100,000 kb away from an OOM.

 

That is quite wrong. While it may appear that OOM happens at a certain point in task manager, it is NO correct measurement. The correct way is to check the virtual size. One of the tools able to do it is the process explorer. NOT task manager.

 

I know, there is no place to check for explanation of OOM, so you have to go through various posts on AVSIM, but that is really so.

 

FSX/P3D will give an out of memory error ONLY when VAS (virtual size) reaches 4GB. This is what the limit is... rest what you noticed, that with deactivating scenery, using not McPhat textures, you don't have OOM - but of course, you are not pushing the sim to the 4GB limit.

 

The problem is that there is NO VAS and OOM error explanation document anywhere on AVSIM. Or anywhere else for that matter really. Not that I've found any. Sorry for going a little hard here ^_^

 

All the best.

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What I noticed in P3D, why I was getting some OOMS - there is no startup menu, so what you do is load your default flight, then you change the aircraft, airport, maybe even time. Each of those reloads puts more usage into VAS.

 

One more reason for LM to add a start-up screen.

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One more reason for LM to add a start-up screen.

 

Quite correct.

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FSX/P3D will give an out of memory error ONLY when VAS (virtual size) reaches 4GB. This is what the limit is...

 

The problem is that there is NO VAS and OOM error explanation document anywhere on AVSIM. Or anywhere else for that matter really. Not that I've found any. Sorry for going a little hard here ^_^

Word Not Allowed,

 

I authored this Wiki entry several years ago, which describes in detail just what the "OOM" error message really means:

 

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=OOM_Error

 

Also, the proximate cause of VAS exhaustion isn't really surpassing the 4GB boundary. That it is most likely to occur as the upper boundary is approached is quite correct.

 

An OOM error will occur anytime there is no remaining 1MB contiguous blocks of virtual address space available.

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Ohhh, very nice! Didn't know about this one. Definitely going to book it.

 

And you are also correct, the boundary is not exactly 4GB, just that it always occurs over 4GB. Easy to measure though. I was only trying to simply the explanation, as not many will understand what you said above.

 

People need measurement tools and then to know how much. That's it. Learned that in the last couple of years battling OOMs and discussions here.

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The most clear "proof" that VAS has nothing whatever to do with physical memory is that even systems with only 512MBs of RAM have 4MB capacity VAS tables!

 

The VAS tables themselves are very small in terms of actual bytes, since it is simply like an index to a book, not the contents of the book. Whenever a running program is swapped into hard disk page memory, the VAS table for that process remains in physical memory, ready to restore the contents back to physical memory whenever called for by the OS.

 

On this Wikipedia page is a good illustration and explanation of how a VAS table is used to keep track of what's loaded into the physical memory at any given time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_address_space

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There is another source of OOM - exceeding the Commit Limit. It gives a Virtual Memory Minimum too Low message. This is a system, not a process. limit. It's the total of RAM plus all the page files on the system. It's a system limit that can be increased by increasing the size of the page file(s)..

 

Committed memory is the total amount of memory used/committed by the operating system and all processes running on the computer.

Windows 7 Task Manager performance pane shows two numbers against Commit (MB). The first is the Committed Memory and the second the Commit Limit.

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Bump for this.

 

I also suffered OOMs after installing more demanding addons and AI traffic. P3D is more sensitive for OOMs than FSX in my opinion and that is probably due the Shader 3.0 code. This is how I have avoided them so far:

 

1. Take autogen down one notch from maximum. IMO P3D looks even better with one less autogen as maximum seems overstuffed. I also ditched Aerosoft Manhattan X as it seemed to cause trouble when flying in NY area and everyone who knows that scenery understands why. It is just over the top with high settings. I also mainly fly ORBX, so it really doesn't matter that much for me.

2. For REXE I use 2048 clouds, IQ difference for 4096 is negligible, but amount of memory they consume is far less.

3. I prefer lighter AA for P3D. In game AA enhanced with 2xSGSS is enough for me. There are some jaggies on instrument panel, but overall quality vs performance is really good and memory consumption should be less compared to 8S+2SGSS we usually do (remember, DX9 maps VRAM to system memory and that is why it causes trouble for VAS too)

4. Don't overshoot with AI. I have MTX airliners 30 and GA 20.

5. So far I've used just 4.5 LOD. P3D loads textures far faster than FSX, at least for me, and higher LODs aren't that important. They of course look still better, but I wan't to avoid crashes as long as possible and maintain otherwise high detail and IQ.

 

and most importantly and this is the annoying part

 

6. For flight creation I do the following: default flight loads. I choose new location and P3D loads new location. After that I choose my aircraft, possible time, date and season and after all the selections and loadings I save the flight as a new default. After that I quit P3D and restart and P3D loads the default flight freshly to memory. Also, avoid jumping to windowed mode and back. Opening and closing ATC window may also cause trouble, as it seems to put the sim to windowed mode. Sort of, but I'm not so sure yet about that. At least one FSUIPC OOM warning started after ATC use one day so this is a possibility. I hate P3D ATC (because of the screen flashing, lack of transparency, no AA..), so I fly mostly without it.

 

P3D really lacks the startup screen and I hope Ideal Flight comes up with one soon.

 

There is still somethig really funny going on in FSX/ESP/P3D memory handling, which reflects to VAS: this habit for repeated scenery loading means and ending with OOM: that engine doesn't drop last load from memory completely and VAS mappings stay at least partly, which means gradual fragmentation of VAS and finally unused mappings reserving small amount of valuable VAS. Remember, every kernel module and such that FSX/P3D process needs has to be mapped to same VAS. There is the reason why VAS is always larger than the process memory consumption. Future DX11 version helps a lot, though addon compatibility is another question...

 

There is still a relation of course. For me, it is always pretty much the same: P3D process gets to about 3.2GB and VAS in that point is the dared 4GB (and this proves it is the VAS that is problem, not the 32-bit memory limitation).

 

DX10 and 11 really alleviates the problem as there is no requirement for VRAM mapping to VAS and soforth to system memory. That is also the reason why in FSX DX10 preview mode people don't suffer from OOMs and in that sense it is superior to DX9 mode. So this usually nowadays means 1-2GB less VAS mappings depending on the graphichs card memory, of course. Some of that amount is still defragmented and practically useless, so amount freed is not that big actually, but still large compared to normal memory consumption of the process.

 

All in all, to me it seems that engine has some sort of memory leak. It can't to a certain extent dump stuff from the memory and reallocate VAS mappings. I am not a coder, more like a communications guy as a profession, but this is how I see it, nonethless.

 

I still love P3D far more than FSX. It is more fluid and smooth, it's colour depth seems better and it is far crisper in image quality than FSX is. To me, world and cockpits look far more livelier. It is no go back for me to FSX. Few things fixed to P3D and couple of addons made compatible and we're there.

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