SIDs & STARS, or total ATC control?

[Gray_Lensman 0]

Gentlemen,

 

FSX comes with an interactive ATC system that will direct your entire flight from takeoff to landing, but I see these pre-designated SIDs and STARs routes for the higher detailed add-ons and I am confused as to how they mesh into the ATC system in real life. If they are embedded into a real life flight plan does the ATC system allow the pilot/aircraft to follow the FMC's preplanned automatic course or does the ATC just give directions using the guidelines of the pre-planned SIDs/STARs routing embedded in the filed flightplan?

 

Regards

[CraigyW 30]

The purpose of sids and stars is to segregate traffic, terrain avoidance and noise abatement. They are only issued to aircraft following instrument flight rules (IFR). Pilots are required to plan the full flight including adding the sid and star for the expected runways for departure and arrival. Sometimes, ATC will leave the aircraft to follow the published procedures but can change the track of the aircraft by putting the aircraft on radar vectors or amendig the route. This is done for traffic reasons or it could be a case of track shortening. All depends on the circumstances at the time.

 

Rgds

Craig

[Kaly 22]

Very good explanation by Craig!

 

Two links that may also be of use:

 

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/instrument_procedures_handbook/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_plan#SIDs_and_STARs

 

Cheers.

[Mickel 42]

I found it useful to turn on liveATC to an approach frequency that I had approach plates for and listened to what was going on. You don't get to hear it all, but enough to get the idea.

[CraigyW 30]

Very good explanation by Craig!

 

Thanks Dimitri, if only I could remember the lateral and longitudinal separation standards!!!

[NoahBryant 26]

Please don't start out with the impression that the fsx ATC is anything at all like real ATC. It's not even close. Craig gave a great overview.

 

You file a flight plan and plan it yourself. ATC rarely changes it and never does it for you. If they do change it, its for excessive traffic or weather. When you take off, they will direct you to the first waypoint on your route, then generally will leave you alone until you're almost at your destination and need to be vectored to the runway. You are expected to fly your flight plan yourself. You aren't constantly told to make turns etc.

 

SIDs and STARs are typically only used by commercial flights as the entire purpose of them is to get a large amount of planes into large airports. They are only for IFR flight. There's no way to use them using FSXs ATC.

 

So to directly answer your question, if you file for a SID or STAR or ATC assigns you one, you are expected to fly it without further instruction as yo do with the rest of your flight plan.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Craig nailed it with his post...

 

Please don't start out with the impression that the fsx ATC is anything at all like real ATC. It's not even close. Craig gave a great overview.

 

I always considered it this way. When I am real world flying I am interacting with ATC personnel that have years of training and qualifications, and are capable of using discretion when decision making.

 

MSFS ATC is scripted code that has non of the capabilities of a real world controller and is very limited.

 

Cheers

[Anthony1968 19]

I'm not at the SIDS/STARS stage of flying IFR on FSX just yet but I'm glad I came across this thread because I have a question. If I program the FMC and fly SID/STARS (and abandon FSX ATC altogether because they don't mix) does this mean I could arrive at my destination only to find an aircraft on the runway I'm about to land on ( or some other equally disastrous traffic conflict).? That would ruin my day to be honest.............

[mganz121 159]

I'm not at the SIDS/STARS stage of flying IFR on FSX just yet but I'm glad I came across this thread because I have a question. If I program the FMC and fly SID/STARS (and abandon FSX ATC altogether because they don't mix) does this mean I could arrive at my destination only to find an aircraft on the runway I'm about to land on ( or some other equally disastrous traffic conflict).? That would ruin my day to be honest.............

 

Excellent question and the only answer I can give you is yes, you could find an aircraft on the runway. There are ways however to minimise this;-

 

1. Set AI traffic to about 20%.

2. Within 30 miles of your destination tune in and listen to the built in ATC so you can visualise what is happening. Do not ask for permissions at this stage.

3. Most STARS will set you up for a 10 mile final, so at this stage ask for permission to land and you should be ok.

 

Works well for me most of the time as long as the weather allows visual arrivals.

 

Cheers DB

[Mickel 42]

The other option is turn crashes off and land regardless! Not over realistic, I know, but its what I do when ATC does something dumb like clear a plane on to the runway after clearing me to land. I'm just starting out using SIDs/STARs myself. I plan the route as VFR and request flight following. It sort of achieves the same thing in that you can fly a real departure/approach and still interact with ATC.

 

Mike

[Gray_Lensman 0]

Thanks for all the great replies regarding SIDs/STARS and suggestions to how to use them together with FSX's ATC.

 

Regards

[Cessnaflyer 56]

Doesn't Radar Contact support the use of SIDs and STARs?

[CraigyW 30]

I don't bother with the inbuilt ATC function. I do my own ATC. I use the TCAS targets to see the sequence for the runway and add myself usually about 3 miles behind the aircraft in front. This allows the aircraft sufficient time normally to get off the runway. I have crash turned off because sometimes they don't get off the runway in time. For departure I just join the queue and go when it is my turn. I have AI traffic set at the high end.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Another great trick if you are flying in an approach and see another aircraft near you or on the runway:

 

1. Pause FSX/FS9

2. Increase the time compression to 8x then back to 1x

3. unpause FSX/FS9 and continue on your approach.

 

This will reset all AI Aircraft and clear your approach and runway. It is a quick and easy trick.

 

Cheers

[Anthony1968 19]

It's a pity we have this limitation . We have airplane and other addons that bring virtual flight alive but the whole thing is restricted by not being able to exert a semblance of realistic interaction with ATC. I understand it's very complex but I'm sure there would be a good market for a solution if it could be done. I have tried Radar Contact BTW but didn't like it. To me it was an extended version of default ATC with funny voices.