A thought experiment. What happens if the captain's MIN is different from the FO'S? Will "minimums" sounds twice? Will it only sound onthe master FD side?

 

Different is to mean different values and or different modes (BARO and RADIO).

 

WhT do you think?

Wouldn't make a lot of sense to have two "minimums" callouts, things could get quite confusing in probably the most critical phase of flight.

 

The EGPWS callouts are based on the MDA/DH set on the Captain's side minimum selector, so you will only get one callout if there is a discrepancy between the captain and FO.

 

It's described on page 15.20.17 in the FCOM (volume 2).

as a matter of fact, if you dont have a minimum set on the captain side but you have one set on the FO side, you wont get a minimums callout.

Then what's the point of having an independent selector for the first officer, as his will only cause confusion or have no benefit at all if the captain forgets or selects an incorrect value? Wouldn't having two interconnected knobs be less confusing and more efficient?

Is not active the side with primary FD ?

 

Petr

Is not active the side with primary FD ?

Petr

 

No. Chris has quoted FCOM 15.20.17 for that.

Then what's the point of having an independent selector for the first officer, as his will only cause confusion or have no benefit at all if the captain forgets or selects an incorrect value? Wouldn't having two interconnected knobs be less confusing and more efficient?

To a certain degree, yes, but if there is a mistake on one side and not the other, it's more likely to be caught. If one pilot selected the improper value after the other did, with an interconnected system, they'd likely notice too late. Since they're separate, it adds a certain amount of fault tolerance.

 

It's surprising how much you can get caught up in your own flows and not notice what the person less than a couple feet away is doing. They could easily change the setting and you'd never know.

 

Additionally, you can use it as an intermediate altitude reminder for the various altitudes along an approach. It's not what it's for, but I use the autopilot's altitude selection when I fly outside of the sim, and that's not what it's for either. It does, however, give me an audible warning when I'm approaching and leave an altitude, so it's nice to have when flying single pilot ops.

So, in another word, the FO's minimum selector is decided to "not work", since it won't sound out anyway?

So, in another word, the FO's minimum selector is decided to "not work", since it won't sound out anyway?

 

There was a decision at one point to choose which one or the other would generate the sounds, but that in no way renders it irrelevant. Why is everyone looking at this as a good/bad thing, when it's really just an extra tool to help you do your job.

 

What do you do without it? You look at the altimeter on your own. Be glad there's a tool there to help you out in that job. Just because the FO's side doesn't make noise doesn't mean it's not useful to him or her (or both of you, for the reason I pointed out before).

 

To those here who aren't real pilots, there is a lot to aviation that is black and white, but there's a lot more that is grey. Don't assume everything that isn't good is bad, or anything else like that. It might not make immediate sense to you, but that doesn't mean it has no purpose.

 

This doesn't call out "approaching minimums" in the yellow and "minimums" at the red mark, but it's still useful for when I take the trusty Cessna out.

 

 

 

As I mentioned in the diversions/alternates thread:

There are a lot of cool features to the aircraft today, but in the end, they're just stuffed full of tools to help you do what you did back in the day when you trained in a Cessna/Piper/Diamond/whatever.

 

Just because the tool doesn't talk to you doesn't make it worthless.

So, in another word, the FO's minimum selector is decided to "not work", since it won't sound out anyway?

 

Just my 2 cents. On A320 there is also no callouts if MDA/DA is set.

On Erj-145 you can't find barometric minimums selector at all. On both of them it's usually PNF duty to call minimums, for one simmer it can be a little bit harder. Anyway, these airliners fly without problem.

No one is calling it useless. No need to get defensive about it. But it's interesting and insightful to look into how and why each piece of equipment was designed, don't you think?

No one is calling it useless. No need to get defensive about it. But it's interesting and insightful to look into how and why each piece of equipment was designed, don't you think?

 

No, which is why we responded in the way we did. We're not getting defensive, we were providing reasons why it "not work[ing]" was an overstatement. Other aircraft don't even have minimums callouts. The fact that only on one side generates an audible callout avoids the issue of having a computer decide which one to pay attention to.

 

It's there to remind you of your MDA or DH. That's it. The fact that one audibly reminds you, and one doesn't is of little consequence.

Sorry if my use of the words "not work" was offensive to imply that the design was defective. Primary language English mine is not

Primary language English mine is not

 

Haha - not offensive, just not what I would've used, and I didn't want anyone else to think that the FO side stuff was worthless. That's all.

My idea arose from the concept of fly-by-wire side sticks on the Airbuses. An A380 pilot on YouTube suggested that physically connecting the side sticks could have prevented an accident such as Air France Flight 447. While this theoretically makes sense, Airbus probably has its own reasoning for making the side sticks independent, which I can not currently think of. I was envisioning the same concept applied to the minimums selectors for greater consistency. Then again, perhaps a notification or a change in the color of the minimums text in the case of an inconsistency would be effective.