>Will you share with the rest of use the "**should**" reason MS>is not at Oshkoshi.Probably secret FS Beta tester stuff....as far as I can remember all the individuals mentioned are testers so it stands to reason ;)Disclaimer - I am just guessing, if I'm wrong dont' shoot me ;)

Hello All,OK, just a thought, however what WOULD we do if MS didn't offer FS10 or 2006? Think about that for an instant.First off, it's not like MS doesn't get bashed enough around here and other forums. What if, Bill happened to drop in one day, say, due to lack of things to do . . (yeah sure) or one of his managers, and saw all the negitive press, (we've had alot of that at once at one time or another), and said . . .oh well, pull the plug on the ungrateful b**tar*s. (missing letters for those of you not so quick are a s d. . jjcan't happen? Sure it can. Will it? probably not.But what if it DID. Well, I for one, would be a tad upset, as a new issue of FS is always fun . . . frustrating at first, but after a few months, we all seem to get things sorted out. I guess we'd be stuck with FS9 . . .Holy CD's Batman . . . the depravity of it all!Hmmm. I'll bet the aftermarket developers would have to scramble to really figure out FS9 then, and get rid of most of the bugs, and come up with new, and unique programs for FS9. Of course, MS would continue to cut and press new CD's and sell them, as FS9 would be the last of it's kind . . . maybe.Or just maybe, someone, with a load of dollars and programing knowledge and the love of flying just might take FS9 and do something wonderous to it -- take it to an entirely different level. . . look at Falcon 4 . . .(wish I had kept my copy now).Anyways, just thought I'd join the fray and interject a few items, and NO, I don't think MS will kill off FS . . .but then again . . . ya never know.Best to all,Clayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"Sundance Quarter HorsesLauderdale, MS. USA

If MSFS is cut off, think on the bright side. Eventually we'll all have computers powerful enough to have a constant 50+ FPS with all sliders maxed and AI models that look just as good as a PMDG birdy... But then again, in 5-10 years FS2004 will look pretty pathetic.Anyone use to play SimCopter? Amazing graphics back then...now... the helicopters are 100 or so pixels...:+

Well personally I wouldnt loose any sleep if MS pulled the plug on its flightsim. If that indeed happened then Im sure that other manufacturers would have us sorted becuase they *know* there is a massive civilian flight-sim market out there. I think (in general) we as civvie flight-simmers dont really whine too much about cost if the sim really delivers.Yes MS is bashed on here & everywhere else but lets face it...we all luv our MSFS! The bashing has to come because that results in improvements ( I hope it does).And you can bet that the programmers from MS trawl through forums like this when they are developing a new sim....Whats great about this scene is the sheer number of add-ons out there. Wether its new planes or additional scenery. Hats off expecially to the freeware people out there who come out with small tweaks here and there that make all the difference to the sim. I see all these add-ons and always wonder why MSFS didnt include them in the sim in the first place. For example I hope FS10 has a NG737 model thats equal to the PMDG add-on.

>Yes MS is bashed on here & everywhere else but lets face>it...we all luv our MSFS! The bashing has to come because that>results in improvements ( I hope it does).>Trust me,the guys at MS are sharp enough to know the difference between someone bashing the FS and a legit post about bugs and/or improvements.If MS no longer wanted to pursue the FS title they could sell the code in an afternoon to a different house. Flight simulator will always be around whether MS wants to release the title or not. Remember MS didn't start the FS title,they bought it.David

Interesting thought Clay...I'm one of those pessemistic few who are having a few doubts about the future of MSFS. It would have to be one of the longest franchises out there and given MS's push towards XBox, I wouldn't be surprised if the tap were to turn off.Having said that, I am pretty happy with how the sim is performing on my machine at the moment and I am sure that if MS were to can it, the talented 3rd party developers out there would continue putting together some impressife and ever more realistic stuff.I'm not too worried if they were to can it. I am sure someone else will fill in the space. There is enough demand out there... X-Plane maybe? Remember the accelerated pace of MSFS development when Pro Pilot and Fly showed up?Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern AustraliaMy "Around the World 4" flight pagehttp://members.iinet.net.au/~portercbp/fly...e%20World_5.htm

They decided to put priority on attending the AVSIM 2004 Conference and Exhibition instead. http://www.avsim.com/pages/2004conf/ :)

Hello All,Thank you Tom, now that is the 'best' news I think any of us have heard in the past few days. I really only wish I could attend, but prior bussiness will tie me up those dates.Although I'll be looking forward to the front page article on AVSIM with it's in depth coverage.Best to all,Clay

> There is enough demand out>there... X-Plane maybe? Not the way X-Plane is evolving lately! :( There are new version changes almost weekly, but a lot of incapatibility between these changes. And then everything from flight dynamics to navigation seems to get screwed up between versions.These version updates are actually beta's that are released to anyone who desires them, but you really have to keep up on a daily bases to stay ahead of it all & attempt to get them working properly............... if possible. I personally have little desire to do so!But it always put's doubt into the simmers mind, as to what's working properly; such as..............are the VOR's correctly located today? Are the flight dynamics "still" close to the actual aircraft? You just never no for sure...L.Adamson

<<<<< Remember MS didn't start the FS title,they bought it. >>>>>SubLogic ATP is in there somewhere right? Didnt that sim form the baseline for FS4? :)

Ok, let me explain something to all of you:Now listen up real good folks. Number 1: I can assure you that there is a good reason why they may not be at Oshkosh, by gosh. Number 2: There is no talk nor has there ever been any talk of "throwing in the towel"So take all those conspiracy theories and throw them all away. There are a lot of us who aren't at the airshow this year. Believe me we would like more than anything to be there.For us it's because we have hired about 6 new people and started about 6 new projects. You know about most of them already. I hope this is clear enough for everyone to understand. Thanks for playing :-)

Yeah, one thing I didn't see in this thread is the question, "Does being at Oshkosh even make sense?" The general flap seems to be because they've been there before and since they're not there now that means the end. That's like saying that the airlines that didn't buy new prop planes in '60's like they had before meant the end of commercial air travel. Business changes and the sim biz is no different. Hey, maybe they've decided to start using infomercials instead of air shows to sell FS!

>Yeah, one thing I didn't see in this thread is the question,>"Does being at Oshkosh even make sense?" Probably not for Microsoft. MSFS is a mass-produced product available in every video-game store. Oshkosh is really a trade show geared towards Cessnas, Pipers, Cirruses, Mooneyes, micro-jets, kit developers, homebuilts, avionics companies, aviation oxygen equipment, etc. - in other word high-end, specialized, expensive stuff that you can't see or touch while running your daily errands.Michael J.

"Now listen up real good folks. Number 1: I can assure you that there is a good reason why they may not be at Oshkosh, by gosh. Number 2: There is no talk nor has there ever been any talk of "throwing in the towel"So take all those conspiracy theories and throw them all away. There are a lot of us who aren't at the airshow this year. Believe me we would like more than anything to be there."Finally, a voice of reason and logic.Greg

I see it differently.There are lots of non pilots who go to the show at Oshkosh. I don't have statistics-but I bet it would be substantially many times greater than the number of pilots who attend. Oshkosh is not just a trade show-it is the biggest aviation event that occurs during the year. The Microsoft booth has always been one of the hugest draws-and in itself probably contributes greatly to increased interest and possible new converts to aviation. After all-most who visit Oshkosh can not afford to take a real plane home-but they can take home a $50 dollar piece of software. Seeing the sim in action, being able to try it, in an atmosphere of aviation excitement I am sure has converted many in the past not only to flight simulation, but to real flying. Fact of the matter is Elite, On top, Flight one, Ch products, and some others were represented there. The biggest player-MS was not-although it has been as far as I can remember in the past. Oshkosh is not just a trade show for pilots, but a show for aviation-which in today's climate needs as much help as possible from every avenue.I think it is sad for whatever reason that the biggest player in software aviation was missing. No consipracy issue for me-just sad...http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg