ntdll.dll crashing FSX

[BK 1]

Hi there,

I have constant crash of FSX in specific location in the FSX world. The crash looks like this in the event viewer:

 

Faulting application name: fsx.exe, version: 10.0.61472.0, time stamp: 0x475e17d3

Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 6.1.7601.17725, time stamp: 0x4ec49b8f

Exception code: 0xc0000005

Fault offset: 0x00032e98

Faulting process id: 0xa64

Faulting application start time: 0x01cde00d52221dc5

Faulting application path: F:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\fsx.exe

Faulting module path: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll

Report Id: 3ed5b753-4c28-11e2-8b8e-00241d7c8fa7

 

The interesting staff about this is that it only occurs in Europe. I flown LLBG-LFPG. I cannot get to LFPG because it will always crash over Italy (this time around 37 NM SE of a way point called URBAN). The fact is I can fly elsewhere for hours and the sim will not have this crash. UIAUTOMATIONCORE.dll is in place.

 

Any ideas that will lead to a quick solution will be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

BennyK

[Jim Young 2,356]

Try uninstalling SP2 then reinstalling. Remove uiautomationcore.dll from your main FSX directory as it is not working for you and it could be trumping out the uiautomationcore.dll used by the system. Make sure you have Microsoft Visual 2005 w/SP1, 2008 w/SP1, and 2010 installed. You can verify this in your Add/Remove Program menu. These programs are used by FSX developers to make sure your program is installed properly and it runs correctly. They are usually installed whenever you install FSX, SP1, SP2, Acceleraton, or any other FSX addon if they are not already installed but something may have happened where they were not.

 

The ntdll.dll error is usually associated with memory problems. You received a Memory_Access_Violation (Exception Code 0x0000005) which is common and hard to find the cause. FSX could have been trying to call up a texture for instance and could not find it so it crashed the system. Make sure your Virtual Memory is set to System Managed Size as FSX seems to like this setting the best. To check, click on the Start button and type Virtual Memory in the search box then look up in the Menu and click on How to change Virtual Memory settings.

 

If you are overclocked or you set up your settings in the BIOS, one of those settings could be off. The biggest program is usually with setting the memory frequencies, timings, and voltages. You need to download CPU-Z and look at the Memory tab and you'll see your current settings. Then look over at the SPD tab and make sure they are the same settings as one of the timing tables.

 

Your system could also be overheating and maybe the area you are flying in is graphics intensive causing your GPU to work harder. In line with this, your fsx settings may be set too high.

 

As an assistance to others, you should post your system specs in your profile under My PC. This helps us when trying to find a solution.

 

Best regards,

Jim

[BK 1]

Thank you for the detailed answer. It may take sometime to respond to all that but until then a few questions and my PC spec's

If you are overclocked or you set up your settings in the BIOS, one of those settings could be off. The biggest program is usually with setting the memory frequencies, timings, and voltages. You need to download CPU-Z and look at the Memory tab and you'll see your current settings. Then look over at the SPD tab and make sure they are the same settings as one of the timing tables.

Try uninstalling SP2 then reinstalling.

Will that action do any harm to the FSX installation? My understanding is that I am not supposed to run FSX without SP2.

 

 

 

Indeed my system is overclocked "lightly" may I say. It runs on 390Mhz FSB while the board normal frequency is 333Mhz. Only FSB is modified. No voltage has been touched and this is done via the EasyTune6 which comes with the Gigabyte board. See below image.

 

My machine spec's can be seen below:

Display card is Nvidia GTX480

 

 

CPU-Z memory is shown here. Personally I can't draw any conclusion ot of this.

 

 

Regarding overheating: I have an efficient cooler (not a regular one) and it is unlikely it is overheating or the alarm would go off....

 

Another question I ask myself is, would it be possible that a certain scenery add-on is doing that? Perhaps I should disable scenery packages around that area which might be causing that?

 

Again, I should stress that flying elsewhere than this area does not cause the crash. I had long flights of over 7 hours with the NGX and it was completely stable.

 

Sure enough if and when I have this sorted out I will post it here.

 

Thank you again

 

BennyK

 

Adding Images:

[Jim Young 2,356]

Will that action do any harm to the FSX installation? My understanding is that I am not supposed to run FSX without SP2.

 

Yes. You should run FSX with SP2. I suggested uninstalling SP2 then reinstalling it. This, for some reason, has fixed several crashes.

 

Some of these 'automatic' overclocking programs do not work very well. I know for a fact the ASUS UEFI Tuning program has a hard time programming memory settings automatically for some of the latest memory SIMMS. It's best to set these manually. You have an older board and computer. Based on the CPU-Z info, your memory is set properly in the GigaByte tuning program but I think the multiplier ratio of x8 is too high and may be causing some overheating issues. Also, on the CPU-Z, check under the SPD tab and make sure those timings are in fact allowed for that DRAM Frequency.

 

There's an excellent freeware program to monitor temps called HWInfo - http://www.hwinfo.com/. It will show you the max/min temps for your CPU and other components.

 

it be possible that a certain scenery add-on is doing that? Perhaps I should disable scenery packages around that area which might be causing that?

 

I think it would be a good idea to disable any addon scenery for that particular area and see if that fixes the issue. The scenery may not have installed properly.

 

Again, I suggest removing the uiautomationcore.dll if it is not preventing your CTD's (it was meant for menu crashes mostly). The dll is part of dotnet which makes sure your product runs properly as well as managing the memory for the program.

 

Best regards,

Jim

[Bob Scott 7,745]

A corrupt texture on an AI airplane that shows up in this area is also a possibility.

[JRBarrett 3,121]

 

Yes. You should run FSX with SP2. I suggested uninstalling SP2 then reinstalling it. This, for some reason, has fixed several crashes.

 

Some of these 'automatic' overclocking programs do not work very well. I know for a fact the ASUS UEFI Tuning program has a hard time programming memory settings automatically for some of the latest memory SIMMS. It's best to set these manually. You have an older board and computer. Based on the CPU-Z info, your memory is set properly in the GigaByte tuning program but I think the multiplier ratio of x8 is too high and may be causing some overheating issues. Also, on the CPU-Z, check under the SPD tab and make sure those timings are in fact allowed for that DRAM Frequency.

 

There's an excellent freeware program to monitor temps called HWInfo - http://www.hwinfo.com/. It will show you the max/min temps for your CPU and other components.

 

 

 

I think it would be a good idea to disable any addon scenery for that particular area and see if that fixes the issue. The scenery may not have installed properly.

 

Again, I suggest removing the uiautomationcore.dll if it is not preventing your CTD's (it was meant for menu crashes mostly). The dll is part of dotnet which makes sure your product runs properly as well as managing the memory for the program.

 

Best regards,

Jim

 

I'm curious why you would advise the OP to remove the uiautomationcore.dll from his FSX folder. The specific kind CTDs he is getting are not the type which the uiautomationcore.dll "fix" is designed to prevent. I see no evidence in his post to indicate that uiautomationcore.dll "isn't helping".

 

Having the required Vista version of the dll in the FSX folder won't prevent ntdll-related crashes, but NOT having it might very well lead to getting crashes caused by multiple menu accesses.... a problem which he evidently does not experience at this time.

 

I have found that CTDs which repeatedly occur when passing a specific geographical location in the sim, (especially when the faulting module is ntdll), are usually related to problems in the underlying scenery. A corrupt or missing BGL file, or perhaps a corrupt AI.

[6FingerSays 99]

I'm curious why you would advise the OP to remove the uiautomationcore.dll from his FSX folder. The specific kind CTDs he is getting are not the type which the uiautomationcore.dll "fix" is designed to prevent. I see no evidence in his post to indicate that uiautomationcore.dll "isn't helping".

 

Having the required Vista version of the dll in the FSX folder won't prevent ntdll-related crashes, but NOT having it might very well lead to getting crashes caused by multiple menu accesses.... a problem which he evidently does not experience at this time.

 

I have found that CTDs which repeatedly occur when passing a specific geographical location in the sim, (especially when the faulting module is ntdll), are usually related to problems in the underlying scenery. A corrupt or missing BGL file, or perhaps a corrupt AI.

 

From my understanding that file is really system specific. If you aren't having menu crashes, There really isn't a need for the file in there in the first place. Some have had CTD from having that file in the FSX folder. (Faulty Module Uiautomationcore.dll)

 

What I would say is to remove the uiautomationcore.dll because I don't know 100% that the CTD wasn't caused by the uiautomationcore.dll file, but what I do know is that it wasn't caused by a menu crash. More of a precaution. Menu crashes are usually caused by the ENB series mod, and the uiautomationcore file does not fix that.

[JRBarrett 3,121]

 

From my understanding that file is really system specific. If you aren't having menu crashes, There really isn't a need for the file in there in the first place. Some have had CTD from having that file in the FSX folder. (Faulty Module Uiautomationcore.dll)

 

What I would say is to remove the uiautomationcore.dll because I don't know 100% that the CTD wasn't caused by the uiautomationcore.dll file, but what I do know is that it wasn't caused by a menu crash. More of a precaution. Menu crashes are usually caused by the ENB series mod, and the uiautomationcore file does not fix that.

 

I'm building a home cockpit, and have FSX running on three separate Windows 7 computers - two are 64 bit, and one is 32 bit (soon to be 64). Every one of them WILL menu crash eventually without the Vista uiautomationcore.dll in the FSX folder. One of the 64 bit machines is quite touchy in this regard, and will CTD after only 8 to 10 menu accesses. With the other two, it could take 20 or 30 menu operations to provoke the CTD, but it WILL happen without fail on all three PCs.

 

WITH the DLL, none of them will menu crash - ever. I've actually tried doing over 100 menu operations in a row, deliberately attempting to provoke the CTD, and just cannot make it crash with an uiautomationcore.dll error. I certainly can, and do, get CTDs for other reasons, but not with uiautomationcore as the root cause.

 

In building multiple FSX systems for myself and others - some very generic, others with a very large assortment of add-ons, I have seen this particular CTD often enough to be convinced that the Vista uiautomationcore.dll is absolutely necessary for the vast majority of Windows 7 FSX installations to prevent this specific type of CTD.

 

There may indeed be some Win 7 FSX systems that are completely immune to menu crashes, even without the Vista dll in the root FSX folder, and perhaps a small number of installations where the Vista file actually CAUSES CTDs, but in my experience those are few and far between.

 

And yes, I do know that ENB, and other mods can cause CTDs related to menu accress that are not directly related to uiautomationcore.dll

 

Interestingly, removing ALL instances of uiautomationcore.dll from a Windows 7 installation seems to completely prevent menu crashes in FSX... and I have seen individuals on various FSX forums posting instructions on how to take ownership of the native Win 7 files and delete them. I certainly would never recommend doing something that drastic, as other software packages written under .net often requires those dlls to be present in their normal locations.

 

To my mind, having the Vista dll in FSX is kind of like an individual with a dodgy heart who has a pacemaker implanted. IF it is installed and doing its job properly, the individual is really never aware of its presence. He may never know just how many times in a given day the pacemaker activates and prevents an irregular heartbeat before it ever has a chance to start.

 

Or, in the case of FSX, how many CTDs did NOT happen (that otherwise would have) because that dll was present in the FSX folder.

 

Under this analogy, suggesting that the uiautomationcore.dll be removed to cure a CTD when there is no clear evidence that it is the cause of the CTD, would be somewhat like suggesting that the fellow with the pacemaker have it removed when he suddenly develops a new medical problem (like an asthma attack) that is not directly or indirectly related to his heart problems.

 

By all means, if someone has a Win 7 FSX system that never experiences a CTD related to accessing the in-game menus, then there is probably no reason to put the Vista DLL in the FSX folder, but I'm convinced through building and troubleshooting quite a few FSX machines that in almost every case, HAVING the dll does no harm, (even if it not really needed) but NOT having it may very well lead to CTDs... and if there is some other system problem that is ALSO causing CTDs, it only makes the whole job of troubleshooting the root cause more difficult.

[FSMP 95]

The OP gave the key to the reason in the 1st line of post.

 

have constant crash of FSX in specific location in the FSX world.

 

The issue is therefore most likely to be "DATA Dependent" --- either Scenery, or even WEATHER.

 

If the OP is running REAL WEATHER, then a bad weather station, putting out corrupt data, can cause all sorts of issues with FSX.

 

So,

#1, since the OP has a repeatable location where he crashes .. try flying this location with REAL WEATHER "off" -- (easy thing to try first)

 

#2 Then start looking at scenery file issues/corruptions.

 

(Isn't there a setting in fsx.cfg, that will cause the sim to display if it cannot find a required .bgl file) -- If not, Procman could possible help.

[BK2 6]

Thank you gentelmen (and lady) for the responses.

I believe I will start from the scenery investigation first as it simply looks logical to me and see what happens. I plan to leave the UIAUTOMATIONCORE.dll in place (I replaced it with a newer version I found) and see what happens.

I certainly liked the analogy to the guy with the pacemaker... Indeed FSX needs taking care off or it "dies" on you... :rolleyes:.

This weekend I will be flying to LFPG for real (no, I am not the pilot...) so my work on that will wait for a couple of weeks.

 

BennyK

[Jim Young 2,356]

I'm curious why you would advise the OP to remove the uiautomationcore.dll from his FSX folder. The specific kind CTDs he is getting are not the type which the uiautomationcore.dll "fix" is designed to prevent. I see no evidence in his post to indicate that uiautomationcore.dll "isn't helping".

Having the required Vista version of the dll in the FSX folder won't prevent ntdll-related crashes, but NOT having it might very well lead to getting crashes caused by multiple menu accesses.... a problem which he evidently does not experience at this time.

I have found that CTDs which repeatedly occur when passing a specific geographical location in the sim, (especially when the faulting module is ntdll), are usually related to problems in the underlying scenery. A corrupt or missing BGL file, or perhaps a corrupt AI.

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for your participation. Your post is confusing to me though. First you are wondering why I recommend the OP remove the dll and then you say the specific type of CTD he got is not the type which the dll fixes. When someone has a CTD and has the uiautomationcore.dll in his/her fsx folder, I recommend it be removed to take away any and all doubt that this dll is not somehow corrupting his fsx installation and creating his crash. I have seen several instances where members have placed the wrong version of the dll in the main fsx folder and suddenly they are seeing crashes so the dll WILL cause a crash if the wrong version is installed. The uiautomationcore.dll "fix" works occasionally for some but not for everyone. It is not the magic bullet to fix all FSX CTDs and I think many have been led to think this is required especially if you have Windows 7 or Windows 8 installed. It could be doing more harm than good as it is part of the dotnet package.

 

I have never seen the menu crashes or the repeated alt-tab and alt-enter crashes that the Vista version of uiautomationcore.dll supposedly fixes. Therefore I have never installed it in my main fsx folder and I have Windows 7 64 bit installed. There are many, many others who have never seen this error too. I have tried my hardest to get this menu crash by constantly hitting the menu and alt/tabbing, alt/entering, over 30 times in one session. I would love to replicate this crash. So far it is not possible. Personally I think the uiautomationcore.dll "fix" is a placebo as I think the original reason(s) for the crash are memory issues where the system memory is not set up properly in the BIOS (freq, timings, voltage) and/or the simmer has his/her fsx settings set too high for his system. They have 16 gigs of memory and think that is more than enough to run fsx with sliders all the way to the right and their display settings set to the max. They don't understand that FSX can only "see" 4 GB's and that gets used up pretty fast when you have your fsx sliders and display settings set all the way to the right, especially in high-density and highly detailed commercial products. This crash would never occur with just FSX installed with mostly default settings. As you know, the uiautomationcore.dll is used to help manage memory for fsx and fsx addons. When FSX/Acceleration is installed or any addon is installed, it looks for the proper dotnet framework and, if it is not installed, it installs the proper version. Look in your Windows folder for Microsoft.net/Framework then look for the various versions. I have Versions 1 thru 4 installed mostly with components required by FSX/FSX addons) and it wasn't done by Windows 7 (dotnet 4 was installed with Windows 7 for the first time ever; previous OS's did not have dotnet automatically installed with the OS), it was done when you installed the addon or FSX/Acceleration. This is why I'm worried that placing an old Vista version of the uiautomationcore.dll in the main FSX folder may corrupt the operation of FSX and I recommend it be removed if you are receiving a CTD. Hope this helps explain my recommendations.

 

Best regards,

Jim

[JRBarrett 3,121]

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for your participation. Your post is confusing to me though. First you are wondering why I recommend the OP remove the dll and then you say the specific type of CTD he got is not the type which the dll fixes. When someone has a CTD and has the uiautomationcore.dll in his/her fsx folder, I recommend it be removed to take away any and all doubt that this dll is not somehow corrupting his fsx installation and creating his crash. I have seen several instances where members have placed the wrong version of the dll in the main fsx folder and suddenly they are seeing crashes so the dll WILL cause a crash if the wrong version is installed. The uiautomationcore.dll "fix" works occasionally for some but not for everyone. It is not the magic bullet to fix all FSX CTDs and I think many have been led to think this is required especially if you have Windows 7 or Windows 8 installed. It could be doing more harm than good as it is part of the dotnet package.

 

I have never seen the menu crashes or the repeated alt-tab and alt-enter crashes that the Vista version of uiautomationcore.dll supposedly fixes. Therefore I have never installed it in my main fsx folder and I have Windows 7 64 bit installed. There are many, many others who have never seen this error too. I have tried my hardest to get this menu crash by constantly hitting the menu and alt/tabbing, alt/entering, over 30 times in one session. I would love to replicate this crash. So far it is not possible. Personally I think the uiautomationcore.dll "fix" is a placebo as I think the original reason(s) for the crash are memory issues where the system memory is not set up properly in the BIOS (freq, timings, voltage) and/or the simmer has his/her fsx settings set too high for his system. They have 16 gigs of memory and think that is more than enough to run fsx with sliders all the way to the right and their display settings set to the max. They don't understand that FSX can only "see" 4 GB's and that gets used up pretty fast when you have your fsx sliders and display settings set all the way to the right, especially in high-density and highly detailed commercial products. This crash would never occur with just FSX installed with mostly default settings. As you know, the uiautomationcore.dll is used to help manage memory for fsx and fsx addons. When FSX/Acceleration is installed or any addon is installed, it looks for the proper dotnet framework and, if it is not installed, it installs the proper version. Look in your Windows folder for Microsoft.net/Framework then look for the various versions. I have Versions 1 thru 4 installed mostly with components required by FSX/FSX addons) and it wasn't done by Windows 7 (dotnet 4 was installed with Windows 7 for the first time ever; previous OS's did not have dotnet automatically installed with the OS), it was done when you installed the addon or FSX/Acceleration. This is why I'm worried that placing an old Vista version of the uiautomationcore.dll in the main FSX folder may corrupt the operation of FSX and I recommend it be removed if you are receiving a CTD. Hope this helps explain my recommendations.

 

Best regards,

Jim

 

Understand your reasoning, and I certainly agree that putting the wrong version into the FSX folder could create problems where no problems previously existed.

 

My understanding as to why the Vista uiautomationcore.dll alleviates the problem for those who have it, is that FSX was compiled and linked to work most optimally on a Vista OS installation, as that was Microsoft's flagship "new" OS at the time that FSX was released... and that (in least some cases) the Win 7 version of the DLL fails if called too many times by repeated menu accesses.

 

I do know that there are many systems, such as yours, that simply don't experience the problem. On my Win 7 installations, however, the crash is very real and repeatable without the Vista DLL, and non-existent WITH the DLL. (Provoked by multiple accesses of the pull-down menus).

 

It inevitably manifests as the "Flight Simulator has stopped responding and needs to close" message. Analyzing the resulting crash dump file always references the Win 7 version of uiautomationcore.dll (and no other dll) as the cause of the crash.

 

One if the frustrations of dealing with FSX issues, is that what works, or does not work, on one system may be completely different on another installation.

 

Ah, what I wouldn't give to get a peak at the original FSX source code!

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree in the efficacy of this particular "fix". I would like to thank you though, for your tireless work in helping users on these forums find solutions to their FSX-related hardware and software problems. You always go the extra mile, and it's greatly appreciated. Folks like yourself, Word Not Allowed, Nick N, Peter Dowson et al, are assets to our hobby.

 

 

Regards,

 

Jim Barrett

 

 

[Jim Young 2,356]

Thank you Jim for your kind comments. I remember the late Dave 'OPA' Marshall was a true asset to AVSIM and the FS community too. I'm not as technically knowledgeable as the individuals you named but I'm learning everyday and one day hope to be as proficient. Working out in this forum has increased my tech knowledge considerably!

 

Best regards,

Jim

[BK 1]

Hi there,

Well after a long time i can say that this has been successful (thus far with one flight over the problematic area without a crash). I have taken several steps.

1. Remove - re-installed FSX SP2: did not help.

2. Removed-replaced UIAutomationcore.dll from version 6.0.5840.16386 to a newer version 6.0.6001.18000. Did not really do anything as far as I am able to judge.

3. The one step which to me seems to be the one is removing SG-LIMC (Sim Giants) scenery.

 

After removing and deactivating the area in FSX the crash went away. Did not yet get to the bottom of this one but at least the indication is that this scenery was the culprit.

 

BennyK

[aarque 11]

Nice. I once found that a persistent crash in South America was caused by a corrupt effect in a Brazilian airport add on. It had two light effects ("lux_lighting" or something) presumably lamp posts and when I de-compiled one, it had a parameter that was way out of range from any other light effect. I have no idea what the number represented exactly; but every other light effect I checked had values between 0 and 100. I changed the number to 99, saved it and everything worked fine. That one took for freaking ever to nail down.