So what's it like to fly a 737?

[Gregg_Seipp 571]

I have thought about getting the NGX for a loooong time. Thing is, I'm not much on lengthy checklists nor pushbutton flying. On the other hand, I really have no idea if that's what it's about at all. So, can someone enlighten me what flying the NGX is like and what it's about?

 

Gregg

[severniae 78]

For me, it's about simulating what real pilots do in a 737 every day. The NGX has been modelled on real world checklists, manuals and operation. So it's fairly involved. If you aren't looking to spend a fair time learning about the 737 and studying how to fly and get the best out of it, then perhaps it isn't for you. Thats not to say that you can 'cheat' and load a pre-started aircraft, quickly load in a route and fly. But even going down this route will involve a minimum of knowledge of the aircraft's systems.

 

A good starter into the Airline type aircraft is PMDG's JS41 - If you enjoy flying that one and the challenge that it gives, then the NGX is very much in the same vein, but much more refined. Before I tried the '41 I wasn't overly interested in the heavy metal, but it led me into more and more complex aircraft to the point that with a few notable exceptions, the NGX and JS41 are the only things I fly today.

 

If you really want to take it to the next level, and give yourself the most realistic experience possible from a desktop simulator, its worth getting a copy of FS2CREW. Its available for the JS41 and NGX and in my opinion is really the thing that really allows me to 'suspend my disbelief' - it adds the one thing that all PC based complex aircraft simulators have been missing - your co-pilot!

 

To make up your mind its worth a trip over to youtube and have a look through the various videos out there. This video -

- and the others by Froogle are very good and give you a good idea of what it's like to fly the NGX.

[Gregg_Seipp 571]

Maybe I need to frame the question differently. If you have been a GA flyer and you have, at least, tried the NGX, what did you like and what did you not like?

[ramprat 8]

Hi Gregg,

 

I was a RW pilot. Mostly I flew GA and steam gauge airliners. I hated glass cockpits when they first appeared on the scene. When the PMDG NGX came out, my best friend convinced me to give it a try. It changed everything for me. I have about 12,000 hours flying in the RW. To me simulating the flying experience involves getting the VC, the sound, and the flight dynamics as close as possible to what I recall. The NGX nails it FAR better than any other product I have tried (and I have tried most of them). The video above gives you an idea of what it would be like if you were to do the whole meal deal in the NGX. But if you prefer, you can load it with the engines running and all you have to do is program the FMC to be ready to take off. You can even fly it without using the FMC but that isn't as fun. The FMC is easy to learn (even for an old dog like me) and it a computes your speeds etc for you (we used to use a chart and write them on a card). As far as what I don't like about the NGX, I can't think of anything. Bottom line is the PMDG is the most accurate simulation I know of for FSX. . I hope this helps some.

[Gregg_Seipp 571]

A good starter into the Airline type aircraft is PMDG's JS41 - If you enjoy flying that one and the challenge that it gives, then the NGX is very much in the same vein, but much more refined. Before I tried the '41 I wasn't overly interested in the heavy metal, but it led me into more and more complex aircraft to the point that with a few notable exceptions, the NGX and JS41 are the only things I fly today.

 

If you really want to take it to the next level, and give yourself the most realistic experience possible from a desktop simulator, its worth getting a copy of FS2CREW. Its available for the JS41 and NGX and in my opinion is really the thing that really allows me to 'suspend my disbelief' - it adds the one thing that all PC based complex aircraft simulators have been missing - your co-pilot!

 

 

I do fly the J41...it's the biggest thing I fly. The checklists and FMC are not overwhelming. From chocks to holding short takes me about 15-20 minutes, I think. I actually spent some time hand flying it and doing standard VOR navigation after I got it just to see how it really handles. I do about 60-70% of my flying by hand, often switching to the autopilot when above 10,000, when things are busy or I want to look at a chart or map, or if I'm prepping my approach. Even if I got the NGX, I doubt I would do long haul flights. I don't see much point in setting the autopilot and watching it fly for a couple hours.

 

I did get FS2CREW for the J41 but I felt more like he was an examiner than a copilot. I flew it three times and shut it off.

 

Gregg

[InTheAir 44]

I thought James did a great job describing what to expect from the NGX. It's as complicated as a real NG if you want it to be.

 

In my opinion, the NGX can be what ever you want it to be with certain limitations meaning there will still be a slight learning curve but nothing crazy. You can jump in with engines running and ready to push-back and go do some bush flying with no pax or cargo and light fuel load! haha J/K

 

I feel that this plane is something to behold and I enjoy every flight almost like it's the first time. All necessary programming for fuel, doors, pax, cargo, push-back, ground connections, specific airline options, etc... the list is extensive.. are all handled through the CDU. From a simmer's point of view, the VC is eye candy especially with all the DX9 tricks enabled. I get good frames at any airport but they dip to 15-20 at large busy airports.

 

Is there anything specific you're interested in knowing? All I can say is that if you have a passion for flying, your PC can handle the NGX and you're willing to put in a few hours learning the systems, you will probably enjoy it. Will you be obsessive like some of us others, no way to know until you tell us what happens! I'm not a long hauler by choice but have done a few 3-7 hr flights on occasion just to do it. There are a lot of short hauls you can do where you get to cruise for like 10-20 mins then start your decent. Personally what I like more than anything is, preparing for departure, the takeoff and then the approach and landing. The more challenging the better. That's what it's about mostly for me, the challenge. Get some dangerous airport addons and enjoy the stress!

[CaptainAdlai 15]

Is the 737 the only jet airliner you're interested in? If not, I've got some suggestions.

[Gregg_Seipp 571]

I thought James did a great job describing what to expect from the NGX. It's as complicated as a real NG if you want it to be.

 

Yeah, he must have posted that just before I posted my next message. I'm watching the vid.

 

Is there anything specific you're interested in knowing?

 

Well, getting to specifics, how long does it take you from 'sitting down in the cockpit' to taxi? Is it manageable by one pilot without FS2CREW (If I have to get FS2CREW then I won't get the NGX). On your short hauls is it mostly hand flying? I'd think the longest flight I would take would be from Phoenix up to LAX (I currently am flying the Dukes on 30-60 minute hops, though, still learning serious navigation). The reasons I've thought about getting the NGX is because, from what I hear, it's a complete aircraft. (It's amazing to me that with small GA aircraft you have to skip steps in the checklist because things aren't implemented). It also has good LINDA (hardware) support.

 

Is the 737 the only jet airliner you're interested in? If not, I've got some suggestions.

 

Truthfully, the only other thing I'd be thinking about something regional or executive but I'm steering clear of anything on the regretful purchases list.

[TheDanger 182]

Is it manageable by one pilot without FS2CREW (If I have to get FS2CREW then I won't get the NGX).

 

Yes. I fly it alone all the time. I have FS2Crew but haven't used it yet! I think it removes some of the workload and I find it boring enough as it is once I am in the air so prefer having to do it all myself. Gear, flaps etc I can manage myself as well as tuning the radios. I just fly with plenty of AI traffic, RC for the ATC (though am looking at ProATC or PFE?) and only do flights that have a cruise period of around 30 mins max or my attention wains and I switch it all off.

[BenW 0]

Yeah, he must have posted that just before I posted my next message. I'm watching the vid.

 

Well, getting to specifics, how long does it take you from 'sitting down in the cockpit' to taxi? Is it manageable by one pilot without FS2CREW (If I have to get FS2CREW then I won't get the NGX). On your short hauls is it mostly hand flying? I'd think the longest flight I would take would be from Phoenix up to LAX (I currently am flying the Dukes on 30-60 minute hops, though, still learning serious navigation). The reasons I've thought about getting the NGX is because, from what I hear, it's a complete aircraft. (It's amazing to me that with small GA aircraft you have to skip steps in the checklist because things aren't implemented). It also has good LINDA (hardware) support.

 

Truthfully, the only other thing I'd be thinking about something regional or executive but I'm steering clear of anything on the regretful purchases list.

 

To be honest, it's as simple or as time consuming as you want to be. I only fly in FS9 but I do have the iFly 737 NG, not as detailed or as good as the NGX but for the purposes of planning a flight exactly the same. My FS9 has all the bells and whistles; FS2Crew, Pro Flight Emulator ATC, GEX, REX etc.

 

Planning a flight for me means firing up Active Sky and letting it download the current weather. Then I fire up Vroute premium and select a route. I don't have time for sitting there for hours in the cruise so I usually just look for a fun, short hop, say Dublin to Liverpool, around 30-40 minutes tops. Vroute spits out the route with the right SIDS and STARS and I export that into the FMC. Then I fire up TOPCAT, select the departure and arrival runways and it calculates the performance numbers for me so I know I'm not going to be too heavy and run off the runway into Liverpool Bay because I don't have enough room to stop. This information can also be presented on the kneeboard (which I trust still exists in FSX!) inside the VC.

 

Then I fire up the sim at the departure gate. Airliners are 99% of the time already warmed up by the time the crew arrive, so I always begin flights with external power connected, packs running etc so the main task is inputting the information into the FMC and readying the aircraft for flight, a job that takes about 10 mins, tops. Then it's a case of buttoning up the doors, calling AES for pushback and getting her started, taxy out and depart. This is probably about 10mins, depending on how big the airport is! Once in the air I usually engage autopilot after the flaps are up, especially if I'm flying with ATC as I want hands free to climb or turn as what they ask me. Cruise is a matter of looking out of the window and enjoying the view of the Irish Sea until North Wales comes into view and then planning the descent. I'll usually fly this on autopilot until fully established on the ILS with gear and flaps set. A whole flight of this might take 15 mins planning, 40 mins in the air and 10 mins to taxy in and shut down. That's usually enough for me.

 

Hand flying is a funny one. Having flown light aircraft for my PPL and full motion Level D simulators, FS still doesn't give me much sense of actually flying. The cues are all wrong and it's actually much, much easier in a real 737 simulator (I flew BA's 737-400 at Heathrow) to hand fly than in FS as trying to accurately hand fly, operate the MCP and talk to ATC (a task that would be shared in a real airliner) is too hard to be very satisfying IMHO. I'm much more interested in operating the aircraft SMOOTHLY. In real life, autopilot is often punched in very soon after departure, especially in busy traffic environments as it frees up the crew to concentrate on the SID and handle ATC. The same is true of arrival. Rarely are airliners hand flown much in the descent in busy airspace, anyway. I find it much more rewarding to manipulate the aircraft through the MCP with precision all the way to a stable approach and well flown manual landing rather than wobble all over the sky trying to do everything myself. Consequently my hand flying skills have eroded beyond following the magenta line, but if you read PPRUNE you will see that's a consequence of automation.

 

I'd get the NGX and open your mind to a new world that is less about flying and lining up VOR tracks but to one that is about actually OPERATING the aircraft, in the way that the job of the modern pilot does. Flying a 737 NG is about 0.5% VOR tracks and 99.5% management of systems. I find the latter very rewarding when it all comes together.

[LeeL 272]

Gregg maybe you would enjoy a classic airliner more. It would be more hands on which seems like its a big factor for you.

 

So I'd recommend the Coolsky DC9 or wait for the Milviz 737.

 

Cheers

 

[coa1117 53]

Well, getting to specifics, how long does it take you from 'sitting down in the cockpit' to taxi?

 

Before I boot FSX I already have the route and weather -- this takes about 10 minutes. Once I'm in the cold & dark cockpit, it's about 15 minutes at most to push & start.

 

Is it manageable by one pilot without FS2CREW (If I have to get FS2CREW then I won't get the NGX).

 

I've never used FS2Crew. I know I would find it annoying. Admittedly the workload is high for a single pilot, but, hey, that's part of the fun. So, the short answer to your question is "yes."

 

On your short hauls is it mostly hand flying?

 

The real NG wasn't designed to be primarily a hand flown a/c, although I usually fly manually up to FL100 and take it down manually from about FL050. If all you want to do is hand fly, then you won't be experiencing the sophisticated technology of the NGX and you won't be getting much value for your money.

 

I'd think the longest flight I would take would be from Phoenix up to LAX (I currently am flying the Dukes on 30-60 minute hops, though, still learning serious navigation). The reasons I've thought about getting the NGX is because, from what I hear, it's a complete aircraft.

 

There are lots of nice ~1 hr. flights for the 737. As you become more familiar and skilled with the a/c you may want to start flying challenging approaches and creating custom waypoints with the FMC. It is definitely a complete a/c -- from the standpoint of realism and the "immersion factor" most users consider it the standard by which all other addon a/c are measured.

[Gregg_Seipp 571]

Hand flying is a funny one. Having flown light aircraft for my PPL and full motion Level D simulators, FS still doesn't give me much sense of actually flying. The cues are all wrong and it's actually much, much easier in a real 737 simulator (I flew BA's 737-400 at Heathrow) to hand fly than in FS as trying to accurately hand fly, operate the MCP and talk to ATC (a task that would be shared in a real airliner) is too hard to be very satisfying IMHO. I'm much more interested in operating the aircraft SMOOTHLY. In real life, autopilot is often punched in very soon after departure, especially in busy traffic environments as it frees up the crew to concentrate on the SID and handle ATC. The same is true of arrival. Rarely are airliners hand flown much in the descent in busy airspace, anyway. I find it much more rewarding to manipulate the aircraft through the MCP with precision all the way to a stable approach and well flown manual landing rather than wobble all over the sky trying to do everything myself. Consequently my hand flying skills have eroded beyond following the magenta line, but if you read PPRUNE you will see that's a consequence of automation.

 

I'd get the NGX and open your mind to a new world that is less about flying and lining up VOR tracks but to one that is about actually OPERATING the aircraft, in the way that the job of the modern pilot does. Flying a 737 NG is about 0.5% VOR tracks and 99.5% management of systems. I find the latter very rewarding when it all comes together.

 

That's reasonable. I have heard that most pilots prefer to do the approach and landing by hand.

 

So I'd recommend the Coolsky DC9 or wait for the Milviz 737.

 

I've always liked the 'Diesel 9' as we used to call it. I'll look. Why is Milviz doing a 737??

 

I've never used FS2Crew. I know I would find it annoying. Admittedly the workload is high for a single pilot, but, hey, that's part of the fun. So, the short answer to your question is "yes."

 

In all fairness, the FS2CREW First Officer I heard in the NGX vid above seemed a lot more reasonable than the one for the J41. I'd consider getting it.

 

The real NG wasn't designed to be primarily a hand flown a/c, although I usually fly manually up to FL100 and take it down manually from about FL050. If all you want to do is hand fly, then you won't be experiencing the sophisticated technology of the NGX and you won't be getting much value for your money.

 

I do like to hand fly. Most definitely like to be able to take over when systems fail. But there are times when I'm just wanting to go up and let the airplane systems do the work. I guess it would depend on what I was doing.

[VIPERGTSR01 22]

I do like to hand fly. Most definitely like to be able to take over when systems fail.

 

I had just that happen to me last week in the NGX, I had random and service failures on and I had a LEFT IRU failure which makes me switch IRU Right to both and disables any autopilot functions, had to hand fly it 300NM to my alternate and frankly it was a pleasure. After a while I decided to use the HGS (hud) which I rarely use as I feel like I am cheating ( ) and it was great.

 

The NGX is great to hand fly, I use FS2Crew a lot but sometimes when I just want to get out there and do some circuits I do all the preflight myself in a rush (skip all the tests) and you can taxi away as quickly as the IRS aligns when you get used to it, which is 10 mins, even quicker if you set it to quick align (which I don't).

[pete_auau 1,168]

the ng is meant to be flown by a 2 person crew so thats why fscrew2 was implemented to be the 2nd crew member as pilot flying there enough checklist for you to do whilst the pnf is doing his checklist