I thought Alex was in the right forum. Now I'm confused. Am I in the right forum?

The topic conversation moved to a human factors discussion from step climbs.

Haha

Now I'm confused. Am I in the right forum?

 

Are you waiting for Level-D's 757? If so, yes! B)

That would be nice if Level D gave the 757 to PMDG to finish!

Luke, are you in the right forum? Lol.

Still confused... =~)

That would be nice if Level D gave the 757 to PMDG to finish!

Luke, are you in the right forum? Lol.

Still confused... =~)

 

Haha! It was a joke since Alex is always referring to Airbus :lol:

I think you're on the wrong forum.. :lol: :lol:

 

Just representing the bus drivers ^_^

The only time the Boeing MCP allows an altitude change from selection without a confirmation is at top of descent. I wouldn't call that partially passive as it's an exception. Airbus is at least consistent in always requiring a push or pull to confirm selection.

 

I was just talking about altitude. Heading commands and speed changes are not checked (at least on the 737). I spin, and the aircraft follows. On the MD-11, the heading may be pre-selected, and then commanded. I believe the Airbus model is the same. Not saying I agree or disagree with any one of them. Despite my outward appearance to disagree with some of Airbus logic (which I've toned down, especially from my education here, due in large part to you), I rather like the idea that I can pre-select items and then command them just to give myself a little lead time.

 

The 737 cockpit is basically dark cockpit, as there are no lights to show switch positions, unlike the 757/767 and later Boeings. All amber lights out means you're good to go, blue or green shows a system temporarily on which is normal, like A/I or window heat. Airbus also uses colours like blue and green to show that. So in this case Boeing and Airbus are not far apart.

 

True. As my first intro into study-level sims was the 744, my Boeing picture is the positive feedback panel that they use: bars to show systems online, lights/words to show OFF/FAULT/etc. Like I said though, despite the positive feedback, it has its disadvantages as well.

 

Airbus pushbuttons positions can also be checked by feel, just like toggle switches. Normal position will mean the button is flush with the panel, abnormal means it will either be proud or recessed, depending on whether ON or OFF is the normal state. Boeing's switchlights aren't like that and rely on the illuminated mechanical indicator.

 

I thought Boeing's didn't fully return to the same position when something was turned off or on, but I could be wrong (74/75/76/77).

 

Embraer uses an extension of the dark cockpit philosophy with their rotary switches. Switches vertically aligned are in the normal/auto position. So a quick glance at the overhead with lights out, switches vertical means it is properly set.

 

Yeah, I noticed some of that when flying in the FeelThere ERJ. It's a neat extension.

The thing that actually strikes me as odd, is that the manufacturers seem to have conflicting views on their implementations:

Airbus:

Dark Cockpit (passive - nothing's wrong unless we say it's wrong)

Confirmation-based MCP (active - nothing is official until confirmed)

 

Boeing:

Active Cockpit (active - status is actively displayed: ON/OFF, white bar, etc)

Partially Passive MCP (passive - systems may act without a confirmed pilot input, e.g.: rolling the altitude down before T/D)

 

Just an observation...

I would not call those conflicting views, on the contrary, I would say they are very consistent. Boeing expects the pilot to look to check, so visual status makes sense. Airbus expects the pilot to actively confirm, so 'normal' status lights are not necessary.

I was just talking about altitude. Heading commands and speed changes are not checked (at least on the 737). I spin, and the aircraft follows. On the MD-11, the heading may be pre-selected, and then commanded. I believe the Airbus model is the same. Not saying I agree or disagree with any one of them. Despite my outward appearance to disagree with some of Airbus logic (which I've toned down, especially from my education here, due in large part to you), I rather like the idea that I can pre-select items and then command them just to give myself a little lead time.

 

For heading control on the Airbus, I'm fairly sure that once you are in heading mode (pull the hdg/trk selector) you can simply turn the selector knob to change heading without and further confirmation, so very much like Boeing's heading select. You can also preselect the heading and then pull the selector to get you in heading mode.