Sure, Laminar could pull somebody from one area of development and put him full time into solving the procedural texture problem, but that means either the other team members need to increase their workload to fill in the hole, or that work simply doesn't get done.

 

Or they could hire a coder and an artist devoted exclusively to procedural seasons. My guess is seasonal textures is in the top three user requests for Laminar Research.

 

EDIT: look at the ATC. A single man did all the job: far from perfect and insufficient for most people, but at least much better than nothing, and the framework is there to be improved continually. If Laminar never hired the person responsible for the ATC, today we would not have ATC at all, nor its framework ready to be improved release after release. The same probably needs to be done for seasons.

Or they could hire a coder and an artist devoted exclusively to procedural seasons.

 

Which is to say you missed my point. Hiring people costs money. Open source projects generally have zero overhead since it's all volunteer labor, so comparing what "one guy" can do with an open source project really has no relation to a for-profit business like Laminar Research. Though if someone were to step up and volunteer his time to make this happen, I'm sure LR would at least consider the proposition.

Which is to say you missed my point. Hiring people costs money.

 

Yes. Also hiring the person responsible for the ATC had cost them money. My guess is seasonal textures are at least as requested as ATC was requested (probably even more), so it makes at least the same sense hiring more manpower for seasons than it did hiring more for ATC.

Yes. Also hiring the person responsible for the ATC had cost them money. My guess is seasonal textures are at least as requested as ATC was requested (probably even more), so it makes at least the same sense hiring more manpower for seasons than it did hiring more for ATC.

 

Well, ATC can be more or less isolated from other developments, but not the seasons. How can you have usefull seasons while at the same time new objects and landclasses are implemented. You first need a more or less stable point before you can really start to overwork and add to the current system. And I don't think that they will reach such a point before 10.40.

Otherwise they would only stand on each others feet. The development would be slower, not faster.

A sure sign for a project that is about to fail: a lot of new team members...

Though if someone were to step up and volunteer his time to make this happen, I'm sure LR would at least consider the proposition.

 

I wouldn't give him one minute of my free time. Hire someone and get the job done.

 

Is he making me a free flight simulator?

 

Glen

The thing you have to understand about free and open source projects like FlightGear is they operate very differently from a for-profit business. For one thing, there are really no negative repercussions for missing deadlines, or spending an inordinate amount of time developing a low-priority "vanity" feature. That is to say it doesn't cost FlightGear anything if one guy wants to spend his free time implementing a procedural renderer for ground textures. This is not the case when you have a team of paid employees and limited resources. Sure, Laminar could pull somebody from one area of development and put him full time into solving the procedural texture problem, but that means either the other team members need to increase their workload to fill in the hole, or that work simply doesn't get done.

 

I remember hearing a story about a professional developer talking shop with a hobbyist who was complaining that the professional's code was sloppy unlike the neat and well commented code you find in open source projects. The professional said, "I don't get paid to to write pretty code. I get paid to write code that works and is delivered on time."

 

Anyway, it remains to be seen how well FlightGear's procedural textures work across the entire planet and what their impact on performance will be.

 

Because X-Plane 10 has never missed deadline during its development?

Plus, with an adequately enticing package, you could probably hire the guy that already did it for free at Flightgear..

Minos

Yes. Also hiring the person responsible for the ATC had cost them money. My guess is seasonal textures are at least as requested as ATC was requested (probably even more), so it makes at least the same sense hiring more manpower for seasons than it did hiring more for ATC.

 

I'm not privy to the internal dealings of Laminar Research, so if they hired an additional employee to work exclusively on the ATC then I guess you have a point. So tell me, did they hire an additional employee to work exclusively on the ATC?

 

The second part of my point is that I think we should wait to see how procedural textures work out for FlightGear before we start declaring this the best solution for X-Plane. According to what I read in the FlightGear Wiki, it's a computationally intensive process that will only be available at the highest graphics settings, and therefore only top end computers, so a fairly limited solution it would seem.

 

Because X-Plane 10 has never missed deadline during its development?

Plus, with an adequately enticing package, you could probably hire the guy that already did it for free at Flightgear..

 

Nah, FlightGear is open source. Laminar Research could use the code without having to pay a dime for it (with certain restrictions imposed by the GPL, of course).

 

I wouldn't give him one minute of my free time. Hire someone and get the job done.

 

Is he making me a free flight simulator?

 

We gotta work on that sense of humor of yours.

I'm not privy to the internal dealings of Laminar Research, so if they hired an additional employee to work exclusively on the ATC then I guess you have a point. So tell me, did they hire an addition employee to work exclusively on the ATC?

 

AFAIK, Chris Serio works exclusively on ATC, and was not working for Laminar Research in X-Plane 9. He's listed in the "about" section of X-Plane, as well.

Maybe he does his work for free, I don't know (not being ironic, I'm serious).

 

The second part of my point is that I think we should wait to see how procedural textures work out for FlightGear before we start declaring this the best solution for X-Plane. According to what I read in the FlightGear Wiki, it's a computational intensive process that will only be available at the highest graphics settings, and therefore only top end computers, so a fairly limited solution it would seem.

 

You're right, surely the procedural approach is more immature than the classic editing of textures by hand. But I see greater potential and more importantly my personal impression, as already stated, is that there's a greater hope of seeing something concrete (and sooner) with the procedural approach rather than with the classic one.

 

I don't underestimate the work needed for it, I know it's not a matter of one, two or three months. But realistically, the alternative (hand edited textures) looks even more, more far to me.

 

Marco

Open source is where you'll usually see innovative and novel solutions simply because of the relatively low cost of implementation. Who knows, maybe the future of flight sims isn't with commercial outfits like Laminar Research but our open source brethren.

Great ideas floating around here. Best bet is to gather them up, and define how it would work, then propose it to Austin. As an X-Plane user since 09 and developer, i know, with the right effort put in, Austin will respond to most emails.

 

Make a suggestion, show examples, refine your idea, and get it across in an email,and who knows what will happen.

 

And I like that other graphic artists are realizing the potential in X-Plane.

Ah, i just found out that the Guys behind Maxx-XP are working on a seasonal pack type deal similar to what the OP proposed. They posted a picture at the ORG.

We've been saying for a while now that the seasonal texture solution is very likely to come from a third-party developer.

We've been saying for a while now that the seasonal texture solution is very likely to come from a third-party developer.

As it should really. Id much rather have a choice in which products to add to Xplane rather then Laminar Research bundle it as they see fit and increase the price. 3rd parties competing which each other for our business is a win for everybody. Even if only one 3rd party creates an addon, we dont have to buy it so they better make it worth the asking price.

 

...ah the free market...

 

Oh and..flyJsim is worth every penny. Nice jobs guys.