Recently I picked up the only "big iron" I have ever attempted to fly - up to now, I've been content to fly the smaller craft, up to the Lear 45, but mostly singles and small twins. And I always used RC (now 4.3) for the plans. I created them using either the FSX internal planner or Flightsim Commander.

 

But now I want to fly this very intricate aircraft, the MD-80, with its FMS. And the FMS creates the flight plans using internal nav data from its own Navigraph database. SIDs and STARs show up as you program the FMS. So now I'd like to find out from you guys what the best method would be for connecting Radar Contact to my MD-80. Someone told me to build the flight plan with the FMS, and then take that plan and import it into FSC, which would then create a plan that RC could use. And FSC does the SID/STAR thing, so it could work.

 

Any suggestions from the RC pros would be greatly appreciated. I'm not ready yet to start flying with VATSIM, and flying these airliners just wouldn't be fun without realistic ATC. Love RC, and hope I can make it work here.

please read the section in the rc manual on how rc handles the sids and stars. you might be expecting something different

 

the bottom line, the flight plan in the fms and what is loaded into rc has to be the same. so either make the flight plan with something that can create the fsm flight plan and the fs9/fsx .pln file -or- something that will do as you say, take the fms plan as input and generate a fs9/fsx .pln file for rc

 

jd

Thanks, jd! So the first few points within 30 nm of the airport will be considered the SID. When setting up the FMS, I have to enter the departure and destination airports, and it will (might) pull up the SIDs available for this departure, of which I have to choose one. Then I'd have to "translate" this into points in FSC. For instance, the Sanford 4 SID says (basically the same thing for all runways): TAKEOFF RWY 9R, 9C, 9L: Climb heading 095°, Thence . . .expect vectors to appropriate fix. Maintain 2000. Expect further clearance to filed altitude/flight level 10 minutes after departure.

 

So I would add the appropriate fix per the FMS, etc, etc. With other SIDs, as long as I enter all of the points, RC will consider everything within 30 nm of the airport the SID. Correct? I'll fire up the MD-80 FMS and give it a try.

If the first few waypoints of the SID are within 30 nm of the departure boundary you will NOT get vectors. A departure procedure with or without altitude monitoring will be you only options. (If the first waypoint is outside of 30 nm all three options are available with the addition of No Departure Procedure resulting in vectors.) A DP procedure (first waypoint within 30 nm requires you to navigate on your own to the waypoint outside of 30 nm.

 

SIDs usually go beyond the departure boundaries into the enroute phase. When using an FMC or other guidance with its own database those waypoints must synchronize with the plan sent to RC.

 

Here is a tip sheet while based on the FSBuild planner goes into synchronizing FMC and route data sent to RC and also how to deal with runway specific SIDs and STARs where runways are not assigned previous to starting RC (the most realistic situation).

 

 

I am going to try to generate a flight plan with SIDs and STARs by doing with FSC what the FSB doc says: First I will get the weather at the departure and destination airports. Then I will first enter the departure and destination airports w/runway info into the MD-80 FMC, and pick one of the suggested SIDs, and let the FMC build the plan. Then I'll take the plan and see if FSC can build it using the given SID and if not, I'll just use the checkpoints in the SID.

 

That should satisfy RC. As long as RC has the same route as the SID is showing, everything should work. We'll see.

Well, I finally managed to input a flight plan on the MD-80 FMC, and as it had only a simple SID in KSFB, and no STAR at KABE, it should work well with RC. Cool thing was, it actually threw a "missed approach/hold" checkpoint at the end. Everything was a "Direct" and was copied verbatim form one of Allegiant's actual flight plans from Sanford to Lehigh Valley.

 

What I actually did was build the plan in FS Commander and print it out, and then entered it into the FMC:

 

KSFB WORMS J53 CRG J55 SAV J51 CAE J75 GSO LDN SCAPE HAR V162 DUMMR KABE

 

Which ended up in the FMC as:

 

KSFB DIRECT WORMS

VIA J53 BARBS

DIRECT MATEO

DIRECT CRG

DIRECT VIYAP

DIRECT SAV

DIRECT CAE

DIRECT GLOVR

DIRECT GSO

DIRECT LDN

DIRECT SCAPE

DIRECT HAR

DIRECT BOBSS

DIRECT HWANG

DIRECT DUMMR

DIRECT ILS9/KABE

DIRECT ETX/HOLD

 

Now I have to fly it and try it. One quick question, though - will RC do the plan using the J-routes instead of the intermediate checkpoints? LIke the original plan, "WORMS via J53 to CRG, instead of the FSC plan "WORMS to BARBS to MATEO to CRG", etc.?

What I actually did was build the plan in FS Commander and print it out, and then entered it into the FMC:

 

Why not just build your plan in FSC , save it as an FSX .pln then just import it into the FMC.

I have not used the Coolsky in aeons but most FMC's allow the import of plans.

Your Coolsky and FSC are using the same Navdata cycle ?

If not the update both of them to the same cycle.

I normally build my FSC plans minus the SID and and import the plan into the FMC.

Once I have been given the runway to use, I add the SID using the FMC then review the plan in the FMC for discos ect.

I had updated the MD-80 FMC to the latest cycle w/Navigraph, but hadn't thought to do it to the FS Commander app. It has been done now, so I'll try to import the flight plan directly into the FMC from FSC. Wasn't sure if I could do it that way. Always pays to read the instructions, eh?

I have updated the AIRAC files on both the MD-80 FMS and FS Commander to the current navdata, and created another flight plan with FSC. Even opened that plan up in FSX to make sure I was on the same page all-around. So far, I have yet to find an "import" function that will let me put the data directly into my MD-80 FMS.

 

You'll also notice from my previous post listing the plan produced by FSC, it added checkpoints along the J-routes, and I'm wondering if that is/was necessary. For instance, WORMS J53 CRG has added BARBS and MATEO - do I need those checkpoints, if they are not listed on the "official" plan (KSFB WORMS J53 CRG J55 SAV J51 CAE J75 GSO LDN SCAPE HAR V162 DUMMR KABE)? If Allegiant flies the above route, do they also add the intermediate points? Or will the FMS add those points when the basic model is loaded?

 

Questions, questions... I'd love to go out and fly, but I still can't get my FMS programmed so that RC can track me. What a hobby! Too bad it ain't a full-time job!

Copy and paste the original plan into FSC and it will build a plan with only those waypoints

 

 

 

Page 180 of the Manual

 

Loading an FSX flight plan into the

FMS

You can load an FSX flight plan into the FMS

by entering the flight plan filename into the

Company route (CO ROUTE) entry field on

the Route page. Enter the name of the flight

plan you wish to load without the .PLN suffix.

The FMS has a limited character set

compared to your computer keyboard. The

FMS can only load flight plans using the FMS

keyboard character set. Make sure you save

your flight plan using the characters

available on the FMS keyboard. The flight

plan name can have a maximum of 24

characters.

Valid example:

Flight plan 001.PLN

KLAX to KDEN.PLN

ESSA-EKCH-1.PLN

These example flight plans would be

entered into the CO ROUTE entry field as:

Flight plan 001

KLAX to KDEN

ESSA-EKCH-1

 

 

 

Hope that helps you get going

For instance, WORMS J53 CRG has added BARBS and MATEO - do I need those checkpoints, if they are not listed on the "official" plan

 

Just delete them from the FSC plan before you save or do it in the FMC once you have imported the pln, those waypoints are in a straight line anyway, from Worms to CRG is only 80 NM.

KSFB has no SIDs available so you will be going straight to your first waypoint, if you leave WORMS ( 15NM) in there as your first WP you will be expected to find your own way to there.

Delete WORMS and have BARBS (33NM), MATEO (60NM) or CRG (94NM) as your first WP and you will get vectors.

Like FSBuild airways, sids, and stars are expanded into the individual waypoints. They are handy for direct-to's if needed even in a straight line.

 

You also might see "local" waypoints with a non-unique label world-wide. These usually might have a designator as "D031" or so and are there to define turning points and limits for a departure or arrival path such as curves. These are in the AIRAC updates for your FMC and flight planner.

 

From either Navigraph or Aerosoft's new product I'd get at least an annual or one time AIRAC update for your FMCs and planner so they are synchronized. It does not cost any extra for multiple formats within the subscription type/period you chose.

Thanks, all! As a former network engineer, I should know to RTFM, and I didn't. Going through the CoolSky manual (as proposed by someone else) I found the method of placing the plan into the Company Route field, and also found out how to clear all of the data and start from scratch, which I am about to do. I will also copy & paste the exact flight plan from FlightAware into FSC, as suggested - I thought I had done that, but this 66-year-old brain sometimes plays tricks on me. I'll simply remove any extraneous checkpoints, per recommendation

 

And KSFB does indeed have a SID, SFB4, which really covers every main runway, and says, in effect, "TAKE OFF RWY 9L, CLIMB HEADING 94.89, THENCE EXPECT VECTORS TO APPROPRIATE FIX. MAINTAIN 2000. EXPECT CLEARANCE TO FILED ALTITUDE/FLIGHT LEVEL 10 MINUTES AFTER DEPARTURE.

 

But since WORMS is within the 30-mile zone, it should work out fine for RC. I haven't yet subscribed to Navigraph yet, but I did pop for a single update, with which I brought both the MD-80 and FSC to date. That was only around $5 USD, and since I'm not yet flying with Vatsim, RC could care less as long as the two apps are synchronized.

 

Again, thanks to all your responses. Love our sim community up here.

I will also copy & paste the exact flight plan from FlightAware into FSC

 

Flightaware works well but for FSBuild and NATS or custom waypoints by coordinates I had for FSBuild to remove the space between latitude and longitude such as 4200N 06000W becomes 4200N06000W. I do not know how this affects FSC.

 

Occasionally some airlines do have custom waypoints programmed into the FMC including just non-international flights.

I think the only LAT/LONG data I have to worry about is the airport, gate and end-of-runway stuff. The plan WORMS J53 CRG J55 SAV J51 CAE J75 GSO LDN SCAPE HAR V162 DUMMR comes straight from an Allegiant flight on FlightAware. So if I enter that verbatim into FSC, it should create a clean plan that I can import into my FMS.

 

Will let everyone know what happens when I try it later this evening. Since WORMS is within 30 nm of KSFB, I guess I'll be responsible for flying to it after T/O and expect vectors from RC from there.