I took a look at EGLL operations using the default scenery and AI flow seems to be OK.

 

I assume you're using add-on EGLL scenery, so this issue probably has something to do with the approach fixes coded for the add-on airport scenery (e.g., ADE files).   The IF or approach transition is probably too close to the STAR exit point (airport designer naturally might not have been concerned about then unsupported STAR arrivals at the time of the airport design), which is causing handoff problems from AISIDSTAR (STAR) to FSX (Approach).  

 

This is why I mentioned the following at page 15 of the readme:

 

A good rule of thumb is, if the user is landing or departing a monitored airport, “standard” SID and STAR files should be checked and tweaked if necessary.  

 

Re-run AIConv.exe, but change the minimum distance between a STAR waypoint and the airport to a value higher than the default (5 nm).  You can also edit the STAR text files directly.  Although the STAR file(s) will loose realism with waypoint(s) missing, this is probably a good tradeoff versus modifying the ADE files, which has probably already been refined and tweaked (unless you have experience with ADE and see something that you can improve).

 

 

I've noticed aircraft that are miles apart (I'm talking at least 30nm here) are being turned around and put back into the hold due to minimum separation being reached. See screenshot 1 for an example. This happens constantly.

 

From page 6 of the readme:

 

The separation distance takes into account the leg-to-leg distance of the STAR each AI aircraft is flying.  For example, an AI aircraft nearing the exit of STAR 1 might be considered too close to an AI aircraft just entering STAR 2 because they are both projected to arrive at the monitored airport at the same time.  In this case, the AI aircraft flying STAR 2 may be slowed down, even if it is the only aircraft currently flying STAR 2. 

 

You're probably seeing AI on different STARs projected to arrive at the airport below minimum separation, which is important to know if you want to reduce go-arounds.  Perhaps I can change the wording of the console output and in the readme to make this clearer.  For example, if the program confirms the AI are landing on different runways at the same airport, they will NOT be considered below minimum at any point during their arrival even if they are flying close to each other.

 

Your program takes control again of the aircraft released to FSX ATC for final approach. They get directed back to the STAR entry point and the whole process starts again. The reason they are taken control of again is due to minimum separation. I didn't think once they are released that your program would take control again.

 

 

 

From page 7 of the readme:

 

STAR exit holding performs a "quasi"  go-around if minimum separation is violated any time after the AI have exited the STAR, but before the AI aircraft descends below 1500 ft. AGL or gets closer than 7 nm to the airport.   The offending AI will be vectored back to the STAR exit point for holding (and eventual release) .  If you do not like the possibility of the arriving AI possibly flying against the general approach direction (this is still better than the FSX VFR pattern solution in my opinion),  use  STAR entry holding only (=1).  In any case, FSX detects go-arounds as normal around 300 ft. AGL and you still have the option to vector those go-arounds on a SID out of the area or just use the regular FSX rectangular pattern (see the AIgoaroundleavearea parameter below).

 

However, I think many of the short STARs at EGLL only have one waypoint, which is always treated as exit waypoint holding (if enabled) because the distance calculations are more accurate.  I might need to add holding option 4, which treats single waypoint STARs as entry waypoints for the purposes of holding (i.e., no quasi go-around services).

 

Even with this set to off i.e. 0.0 it still happens when holding is enabled. 

 

 

 

From page 7:

 

If AIseparationdistance  is set to zero in the .ini file, the holding minimum distance is 5 nm (independent).  

 

I made holding independent of minimum distance so that the user had to option to just rely upon holding to separate the AI rather than speed changes.

 

Some aircraft after being released for approach close to the airfield turn around and head off in the wrong direction for miles. They don't appear to be controlled by your program going by the output but this does seem very odd. 

 

 

 

Yes, this probably has to do with the issue above, where the STAR exit waypoint is too close to the IF or approach transition causing a hand off error.

 

 

 

More often than not with any settings aircraft are being released to FSX ATC far too high. I think this might be why they get vectored away from the airfield again before finaly trying to land. I just noticed and aircraft being released at FL100, after release it climbed back to FL180 and headed off away from the airfield. Is there a minimum height that FSX ATC wants the aircraft at before it's ready to vector them onto the approach?

 

 

This could be STAR exit waypoint holding vectoring the AI back to a waypoint holding altitude.  Also, most of the EGLL STARs have exit waypoint altitude restrictions in the 8000 - 11000 ft range, so they are going to get released high according to explicit STAR restrictions.  It could also have something to do with the exit waypoints being too close to the IF as discussed above.  Still, I didn't notice AI coming in high on final approach.  Everyone once in awhile a glitch occurs and a AI comes in too high, but it was the exception.

 

 

 

 

One thing that would really enhance your program is to change your scrolling list into an auto updating table. 

 

Definitely, I'll probably add a GUI in the next version (not the current 1.2), but also keep a console version for those who like average CPU utilization below 1% and a max. memory footprint of about 6K (important if you're running AISIDSTAR on the same computer as FSX).

 

Please don't hesitate to send me a log file at my support address.  Include the identification of oddly behaving AI (airline/flight number or tail number), which makes it easier for me to search the log file for problems.

 

Thanks,

-Roland.

 

can someone post a tutorial on how to create SID/STARS for the airports from the Navdata pro db ?

 

Sure, use Navdata pro to update your PMDG SID/STARs, then follow this procedure:  http://forum.avsim.net/topic/408490-ai-aircraft-sid-and-star-controller/?p=2704441

 

Replace the "US" with any other country or region you may be interested in.

Hi Roland,

 

Thanks for the explanation, it makes sense to me.

 

I use UK2000 Extreme EGLL v2 so indeed an addon. You can download a freeware version from their site should you want to try it as I see it. Obviously its less cluttered but I'm sure the approach etc is the same setup.

 

I have it working pretty well now. I got to this stage by removing a number of the STARs so that aircraft only go onto final from a few locations around EGLL rather than all over the place and setting the separation to 6nm. I've only seen a few go arounds and the arrivals are fairly consistent every 2mins or so now. Pretty good if you ask me! It's very cool seeing one taxi off (that can take a while) whilst another couple are on approach. I also reduced my traffic slider from 45 to 35 as I think it was getting overwhelmed after a while and the aircraft just couldn't get the separation required so just went into a loop almost. I'm not using holding either as when I turn that on I rarely get any arrivals. I might try that again now that the traffic flow is a little less. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

A simply gui would be great, it would be very interesting to see a live arrival/departure board of sorts.

 

Thanks for bringing us this software, it makes a huge difference once you find that sweet spot for your system and airport.

 

All the best

 

Andy

 

 

Sangam Gupta, on 28 Jul 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:
can someone post a tutorial on how to create SID/STARS for the airports from the Navdata pro db ?
 
Sure, use Navdata pro to update your PMDG SID/STARs, then follow this procedure:  http://forum.avsim.n...ller/?p=2704441
 
Replace the "US" with any other country or region you may be interested in.

 

Roland

 

I tried that - AiConv.exe always crashes upon reading first file. Where it says Reading Fixes.

Hi Roland,

 

Not sure if this is possible for the future but the AI doesn't always update it's landing runway if the wind changes. That just happened to me. Departing aircraft switched but I ended up with arrivals coming into both 9L and 27R at the same time for a bit. I realise this is a limitation of FSX AI but if there was a way to push/refresh the active runway out to all AI aircraft when you hand them over that would be great. Just a thought anyway.

 

Andy

Roland

 

I tried that - AiConv.exe always crashes upon reading first file. Where it says Reading Fixes.

Sangam

 

I too was having this issue. Try moving the 'Temp' folder you created into 'My Documents' folder and try running the utility AIConv.exe again. Seems to be working for me so far...

Unfortunately, when I reached 'CYDF.txt' i got the message sayin AIconv.exe has crashed. Happens at a few other airports aswell, most noteably KJFK.txt and LFPG.txt. Running the utility to parse this file directly i.e. 'AIConv.exe .\SIDSTARS\KJFK.txt .\connverted' yeilds the same crash. Can anyone help with this?

 

I have the conversion folder in 'C:\Users\My Name\My Documents\Temp'

 

Using PMDG SIDSTAR data

 

NavdataPro Cycle 1308

 

Crash log is attached

Guys, the NavDataPro produced FMS data probably has format difference(s) causing the problem.  I don't subscribe to NavDataPro though.  Too bad because I would need only inspect one problematic file to find the format issue.  BTW, my support email address can be found in the readme file.  Just throwing that out there....

 

-Roland

Guys, the NavDataPro produced FMS data probably has format difference(s) causing the problem.  I don't subscribe to NavDataPro though.  Too bad because I would need only inspect one problematic file to find the format issue.  BTW, my support email address can be found in the readme file.  Just throwing that out there....

 

-Roland

Hi Roland, thanks for the reply!

 

Funnily enough I've been using Navigraph data up until the latest cycle where I thought I would give NavDataPro a go! Just my luck lol. I'm not at my computer just now, I'll have a look at the file format when I come home from work later on

First thank you for your great program!

Would be possible to include South American airports in the next version?

Thank you!

Guys, the NavDataPro produced FMS data probably has format difference(s) causing the problem.  I don't subscribe to NavDataPro though.  Too bad because I would need only inspect one problematic file to find the format issue.  BTW, my support email address can be found in the readme file.  Just throwing that out there....

 

-Roland

Just to clarify on what Roland stated above, I am now using my Navigraph 1307 PMDG cycle to produce the SIDSTAR data. So far so good (I'm at ENSR without any errors :good: ).

 

If Roland can come up with a solution with using the converter for NavDataPro files then all the better for people who don't use the Navigraph data! Here's hoping!

Yesterday I did a flight from ELLX to some airport in Qatar. Don't remember which one.

The thing is that airport didn't have any SID or STAR, so the converter didn't make any files.

 

In that case, how to tell the program to monitor a airport with out them?

Yesterday I did a flight from ELLX to some airport in Qatar. Don't remember which one.

The thing is that airport didn't have any SID or STAR, so the converter didn't make any files.

 

In that case, how to tell the program to monitor a airport with out them?

 

You could create your own SID and STAR for the airfield and get the program to use them.

Hi Roland,

 

Not sure if this is possible for the future but the AI doesn't always update it's landing runway if the wind changes. That just happened to me. Departing aircraft switched but I ended up with arrivals coming into both 9L and 27R at the same time for a bit. I realise this is a limitation of FSX AI but if there was a way to push/refresh the active runway out to all AI aircraft when you hand them over that would be great. Just a thought anyway.

 

Andy

 

I admit, I use a fairly primitive buffer to keep track of the current runways in use, which can actually be 3 or 4 at the same time at large airports.  There will definitely be a delay updating the buffer, especially if several runways are changing at the same time.  I'll look into this (not for Rev. K which I'm about to upload).

 

I agree, FSX does have limitations with AI tending to react slowly to weather changes at the airport.  I've gotten into the habit of telling Active Sky not to update the wind directions for this reason.

First thank you for your great program!

Would be possible to include South American airports in the next version?

Thank you!

 

Follow this procedure:  http://forum.avsim.n...ller/?p=2704441

 

Replace the "US" with any other country or region (South America) you may be interested in.

 

The goal with the airports I included was just to provide a "sampling" to illustrate how the program could monitor multiple airports in regions and countries at the same time.  The included files were not meant to be comprehensive.  I chose the non-US samples based on user requests I received while I was developing the early versions.  My decision as to which regions to leave out were not based on any other judgments.  My apologies for leaving out South America.

You could create your own SID and STAR for the airfield and get the program to use them.

 

Yes.  If you decide not to use any SID/STAR for the airfield, then the airfield will not be a "monitored" by AISIDSTAR and the AI will arrive and depart normally under the control of FSX.  

 

You could also try the Aircraft Design Editor, which lets you specify basic approach patterns (not SID/STARs) for a particular airport.

Yes.  If you decide not to use any SID/STAR for the airfield, then the airfield will not be a "monitored" by AISIDSTAR and the AI will arrive and depart normally under the control of FSX.  

 

You could also try the Aircraft Design Editor, which lets you specify basic approach patterns (not SID/STARs) for a particular airport.

Great. I was under the impression that if the airport its not there, there were not going to be any AI on that airport. But as long as they land and takeoff under FSX control its OK.

I assume that if an airport doesn't have any SID or STAR in real life the traffic is being controlled by ATC anyway, so everything is cool!!

 

Another total different question. Since I started to use AISIDSTAR, suddenly in mid flight I start to hear a constant "BIP" in the background like when you try to click a window that you can't click because there is another on top of it that is blocking it.

Anyone noticed this?

Rev. 1.2K (beta) can be found here: 

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/f2wvbfnp8oy8sdl/AISIDSTAR12K.zip

 

New:  Minimum separation between the user's aircraft and AI (if enabled) now extends to the final approach.  Conflicting AI will be commanded to go-around thus quickly getting out of the way.

 

New:  I added new SIDs to the KJFK folder to demonstrate what manually tweaking the SID/STAR files allow the user to do.  These SIDs implement the various noise-abatement departures specified in the Kennedy One procedure.  AI will use the 31L/31R Breezy Point, Bridge, Canarsie, and Idlewild (Prop Only) climbs, the 22L/22R Gateway climb, and the 4L/4R "right turn to 100 deg." climb, all depending on departing runway and AI destination.   Yes, automatically generating thousands of SID/STAR files using AIConv.exe is convenient and usually works OK, but manually tweaking the files at your favorite airports allows you to take it up a notch.  If you look at the custom files, they're not really that complicated either.

 

New:  Added several new parameters to the .ini file (NoVectorAltitude, NoVectorDistance, AIMaxSpawnDistancefromSID, AIMaxSpawnDistancefromSTAR).  See the readme for an explanation.  

 

Fixed:  AI landing at monitored airport, then departing that airport for another monitored airport, were not getting vectored properly due to stale airport position data.

 

Fixed: AIConv not able to process NavDataPro produced PMDG SID/STAR files.

 

Fixed: Turbo-props not getting assigned to prop-only SID/STARs.

 

Fixed: Piston aircraft (which the program assumes are general aviation) were improperly getting assigned SID/STARs.

 

Fixed: Repetitive User aircraft below minimum with AI messages.

 

Fixed: Leaving non-mandatory parameter values "blank" in .ini file causing program to crash (instead of default values being assigned).

 

Thanks!

-Roland