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Guest Eric

FS2004 autogen and patch

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After installing the patch I did get a increase in frame rate with extremely dense autogen enabled and that's good. I installed the patch for FS2004 and everybody says that it fixed there autogen problem and the readme says that but I still get major slow downs when I have autogen turned on, as low as 10 in a certain spot over Anaheim, CA, after doing a 180 degree turn facing where I started slewing from. Flew from LAX to Van Nuys and during final to Van Nuys Rwy 16 it was around 16 fps. I'm using extremely dense autogen. When I zoom in a few times I see autogen objects that I can't see at a normal zoom during the frame rate drop. I'm running a P4 3 GHz, 1 GB PC3200 Dual Channel, and a 6800 Ultra video card. The only thing I can do to fix my slow down is go to my autogen folder and rename my default.xml file to default.bak and change TERRAIN_USE_VECTOR_OBJECTS=1 to TERRAIN_USE_VECTOR_OBJECTS=0 in my FS9.cfg file to fix my problem. I reinstalled FS2004 and added the latest FSUIPC file and then updated FS2004 successfully. I play at 1600x1200 4xAA 8xAF, most settings maxed out except no ai traffic and MIP mapping level at 4, no add-on scenery. So why am I still having the same type of slowdown after the patch?

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I have the exact same problem as you over the Los Angeles area. I did a flight after I installed the patch from KDFW to KLAX and the framerate drop was terrible. I lower my autogen setting from 'Extremely Dense' to 'Very Dense'. The lower setting seemed to help a bit but not much...Autogen was a feature I was hoping I wouldn't have a problem with anymore after the patch... :( :-hang

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Same thing here :(Those fastfood houses and gas stations continue to haunt the programmers at MS...Actually I found no difference at all with regards to autogen behaviour. Autogen objects around KPDX still remained visible when I was over 13 miles from the airport and some objects on the other side of the river, probably 22-25 miles away still showed up. Slewing "backwards" south from KPDX resulted in a steady framerate decline from 30 to about 10. Disabling default.xml and vector objects as usual resulted in a steady framerate of about 35-40 FPS (no AI traffic or weather).Looks like the patch needs a patch.I will try to install the patch on a clean install of FS9 on my laptop to see if some addons or tweaks are causing this, but I doubt that is the case.I have pretty much given up on generic autogen scenery. Because Autogen is so buggy I discovered photographic sceneries and haven't looked back. Over these sceneries, I get a photoreal view out the "window" and framerates in the range of 25-60 FPS. Much better than repeating tiles and stutters.I can report that the support for 19m mesh now works properly so sceneries like VFR Terrain and Switzerland Pro look better than ever - VFR Terrain now displays proper coastlines and the 3D mesh forests of Switzerland Pro now look more like forests and less like hills thanks to the improved resolution.

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Installed FS9 on my laptop and applied the patch. This was a "clean" installation of FS9 with no addons or tweaks applied. Still, after applying the patch the autogen bug remains - by using a high Zoom setting and slewing backwards you can see how normal autogen objects like trees and houses dissapear properly, but default.xml objects remain visible up to well over 20 miles away.Either someone forgot to include the autogen fix in the patch, or, even the programmers at MS have no idea how their own scenery engine works. Will be interesting to see how/if MS responds to this issue. After all they did promise to fix this bug. Anyone checked if the seasonal CTD is gone?Microsoft fixing the bugs in their products - I knew it was too good to be true...

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Jimmi,as you probably remeber, I was amongst those, who complaint over the autogen bug right from the beginning. Thus checking autogen was the first thing I did after installing the patch with following resuts (after flying straight forward in densly urban/suburban area for 7 minutes):keep flying straightforward view 22/23 fpslooking back 17/19 fpsdoing a 180

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One question--are you using the updated fs9.exe or the no_cd hack? Try the updated fs9.exe (it will require disk 4) if you've been using the hack.Second question--on the odd chance the install didn't go correctly, check the datestamp of the dll's in the modules folder. They need to read (for the MSFS core dll's) 9/1/04 or later. If they don't, the patch didn't install correctly.-John

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So what are your results if you rename the default.xml file after applying the patch?I think I may have noticed someting similar. I remember seeing single-digit framerates around Portland, OR when I did these test flights the last time, with the unpatched FS9. In particular I got 6 FPS on final at KUAO when flying from KPDX. However, that was a long time ago and I didn't keep any screenshots or recorded flights. During testing today I never saw anything less than 12-13 FPS. However, with the file renamed I was conistently getting 30FPS, as usual. I find anything less than just under 20 FPS quite unflyable and would have wished MS fixed this properly instead of just improving things slightly.

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I'm experiencing the same thing ... still have a decided slowdown after I do a 180 degree turn over an area with dense autogen (in my case, the Twin Cities area). Before turning, I was maintaining almost precisely 28 fps (which is where I have my FPS limiter set) as I flew all the way across town. When I then turned around, framerates immediately dropped to the 20-22 range.It was a little disappointing, I have to admit, after getting my hopes up about the patch. The new MN bridges look nice, though.Mine is a completely stock FS2K4 installation ... not using a no CD hack, tweaks, or any add-ons. I checked the post-patch modification dates on FS9.EXE and all of the DLLs in the modules folder ... all were dated 9/1/2004. I run the sim at 1280x960 w/4X AA.David Sandberg[br]THE BEAST: AMD Athlon 64 3000+, MSI K8N Neo Platinum MB, 1GB Kingston PC3200 ValueRAM, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB, Samsung SP1614N 160GB HD, Echo Gina 24/96, Pioneer DVR-107 DVD-RW, Samsung SD-616E DVD-ROM, Antec Sonata case, Mitsubishi 19" Diamond Pro 930SB, Windows XP Professional, DirectX 9.0c, CH USB Flight Sim Yoke & Pro Pedals.[br]Long live InfoMETAR

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I think Wolfgang is right - there is a definitive improvement but the issue is still present. It's possible that with a modified default.xml (for example: file available in the library which only keeps "rural" autogen objects), and by using 0.75x or 1x zoom, framerate should be quite acceptable unless you try to cause problems. However I'm still very dissapointed that MS didn't completely fix the problem once and for all.

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O.K. I've found some workarounds but first I would like to know does anyone or could someone point me to the exact texture files for the light poles and billboard signs??? I want to see if reducing those textures sizes in DXT3 format helps...Now here's what I found to help (not work) for now:Go into you 'terrain.cfg' file and look for lines that contain the problem child

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>When I>then turned around, framerates immediately dropped to the>20-22 range.>David, I see it happen too but at least in my case I see frame rates coming back quickly. I make sure I compare apples to apples in other words I always make sure I happen to be at approximately the same spot and looking in the same direction before I compare frame rates. Looking back at a big airport always results in decrease of frame rates but when I return to the same spot and I look at the same direction then my fps is the same as it used to be before I flew complete circuit.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2, Omega 2.7.90 (4xAA 16xAF)

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>after doing a>180 degree turn facing where I started slewing from. I am not sure why some here assume that there will be no slow-down when they turn back to the airport. Frame rate seems to be the function of the exact spot you are in and direction you are looking at (assuming weather, AI, etc. are equivalent). You also have to allow for frame rates to stabilize to get the reading. So you are really comparing apples to oranges. Note the spot you are in, note the heading, then do whatever - flying in circles if this is what you want then return to the same spot, look in the same direction and see if your frame rates are roughly the same as before. If they are not then there is a problem. I see absolutely no difference whenever I perform such a test.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2, Omega 2.7.90 (4xAA 16xAF)

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I don't wanna rain on your parade...but look at my previous post re using the UNPATCHED fs9.exe...WITH a change in the fs9.cfg max_terrain_vertexes=21...That change alone may account for the increased resolution..and if so...what have we gotten with the patch?good luck and flying...Chas

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I came home late last night and therefor I did not feel like uninstalling and reinstalling the patch, however I did some additional intensive test flying and made some really interesting observations.Fisrt of all, Michael is correct, after a 180

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Nope. See, before the patch setting it to 20 or 21 had no effect. Now it does. Thats one thing the patch does is enable those higher resolutions so that now they actually work.

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When the autogen problem first emerged a year ago I did quite a few measurements on the off-distances for these autogen objects. As we know all too well, the off distances were ridiculously high, for example telegraph poles were visible at just over twenty miles! I repeated a few tests after applying the patch to a virgin FS installation (don't ask - I had big problems with the patch that forced a re-install). Here are a few off distances in miles compared to the pre-patch values:Object '''''' off distance,pre-patch '' off distance, patchedRoad sign '''''''''' 23 '''''''''''''''''''' 7.3Fast food (chicken)' 20 '''''''''''''''''''' 7.8Power station '''''' 24 '''''''''''''''''''' 8.1 The patched values are much more sensible - but they're still too large. If you scan a city at very high zoom you'll still see that the distant objects are dominated by the autogen objects. The on distances are virtually the same. I also checked frame rates at Los Angeles. I slewed across for some distance, checked the frame rate and then flushed the autogen objects and checked the frame rate again. Autogen objects can be flushed simply by changing the autogen density setting and then returning it to the original value. These are the typical frame rates: After slewing '''' after flushing '''' ratio '''' 10 ''''''''''''''''' 15 ''''''''''' 1.5 '''' 13.2 ''''''''''''''' 17 ''''''''''' 1.29 '''' 17.8 ''''''''''''''' 23.5 ''''''''' 1.32 '''' 14.6 ''''''''''''''' 18.8 ''''''''' 1.29 Typically the frame rate is about 30% higher after flushing. This indicates that there is an accumulation of unwanted objects. As the on and off distances are virtually the same with the patch, the explanation for this isn't obvious. I think these measurements confirm some observations made in this thread, that there is some improvement but the problem is still there. Before the patch the measured ratio was sometimes almost 2, that is, after flushing the frame rate nearly doubled. My conclusion is that Microsoft has indeed improved things, but the basic problem is still there. That is a bit disappointing. Any chance of a patch for the patch? Best regards, Chris

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Jimmi, yes, as you say, there is an improvement but the problem is still there. I give some measurements in my other post.... Best regards, Chris

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Well, after installing the patch I don't even get the default.xml autogen objects. I installed using the origional fs9.exe, the updated .exe installed, the dates of the .dll's are correct, so what happened? During installation I got a warning that display.cfg had changed but everything else went fine. My FPS around KSFO plunged to single digits where as before they stayed above 20. I "fixed" this by changing Autogen from max to normal, but now of course get a lot less autogen. I do like the new bridges though. Any ideas on what I should try next would be greatly appreciated.ThanksDavidedit: I just looked in scenerygenerictextures and all the .bmp's are there, but none of the default.xml stuff displays.

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>LOL I'm sorry but reading your post, it looked like a pagan ritual :-lolYes, :-lol As stated, I came home late last night, which means I also wwas drunk (only a little bit off course ;-) ). Otherwise I would not have flown back and forth for an hour or so. :-).Anyway, the results of my test are correct!Wolfgang

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David, I had a similar problem. I had modified display.cfg to make fog work correctly on my ATI 9200. The patch reported that display.cfg was a problem and installation would be terminated - but it carried on and completed anyway. But there were serious problems and FS didn't run. Eventually I had to re-install FS. Then the patch installed without problem. If all else fails, re-installing FS should guarantee the patch will install correctly.... Best regards, Chris

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Chris, "Eventually I had to re-install FS. Then the patch installed without problem."Why? You don't need to re-install, only do that's like below, restore the original files below:BTW: Fs2004 test 9.0 vs 9.1 I have the similar gain like this test, many others users in the same situation. Do not forget the bridge was not available before 9.1 expect some fps limitation on fps decrease not related to others things.http://slacktide.org:88/~dan/FPS.html-Uninstall the patch-Delete the backup folder in fs2004 rootFrom the fs2004 Cd 1GAMEfs9.exedisplay.cfgdevices.cfgterrain.cfgCopy them to your fs2004 root; fs2004Restore the default fs2004 generic.bgl file: -1. Insert the

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Thanks Chris and Chris. I'll go with replacing the listed files and see what happens. I read about this before installing the patch but got lazy I guess. This time I'll do it right. Thanks again for your replies.David

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Hello, I got better performance overall with the patch compare to fs9.0 with MANY test overall performance and autogen performance.. Can't beleave all these confusing post I read.BestEric

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