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Noel

Place your bets now! Will IB-Ex variant sport fluxless solder?

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My sense is that this is the PERFECT move for Intel to take on this:  produce the ultra-pricey X variants using fluxless  solder for the IHS as this would add some meaningful value to the X variant over K variants and help justify the cost, no?

 

The last stop in my long wait to upgrade is the Sept release of IB-E, after which the parts go on order.  If, and it's a big if I think still, SB-E-X w/ 8 cores comes out as some have rumored then that processor, if my fantasy of IB-Ex having fluxless solder TIM doesn't come to pass, is what I am going to purchase.   If IB-E-X sports fluxless solder then I'll give up the 2 extra cores if the fantasy i7-3890X does come to pass.

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I personally believe that the new Extreme series chips will be fully capable of running extreme overclocks just like the good ol' SB chips can. It is obviously a marketing tactic to push hardcore users to the more expensive CPUs. 

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Well I tell you what, if crappy TIM under the IHS was all part of a big marketing ploy, designed to push enthusiasts toward the expensive chips...

 

Then Intel failed miserably. Because serious overclocking enthusiasts are simply de-lidding the CPU's.

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Martin or whomever:  what is the difference between X and K processors?  Don't the K processors have unlocked multipliers?  If so, why X?

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Well I tell you what, if crappy TIM under the IHS was all part of a big marketing ploy, designed to push enthusiasts toward the expensive chips...

 

Then Intel failed miserably. Because serious overclocking enthusiasts are simply de-lidding the CPU's.

 

...and only gaining about 200 MHz from what I've read. There are more things at play here than core temperatures. Haswell and Ivy Bridge are "mobile first" chips, optimized for low power at or below 3.5 GHz. Any frequency headroom is regarded as wasted power, and turned into power savings at lower frequencies instead. You're right though - if you absolutely must squeeze every MHz from your CPU, you're better off just de-lidding instead of locking yourself into a more expensive platform that's always one generation behind.

 

As for solder vs TIM, there are numerous theories floating around. Some claim they switched in order to save on manufacturing cost, while others provide more technical reasons as to why solder would not work with IB and HW. Whatever the reason, Intel's factories have switched over to TIM now. I have a feeling they won't convert back to solder for a low-volume, niche CPU, but we shall see. I'm surprised they even continue to release "Extreme" CPUs, considering the high performance desktop market is dying out.

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I'm surprised they even continue to release "Extreme" CPUs, considering the high performance desktop market is dying out.

 

I don't think the high performance desktop market is dying out so much as the mainstream desktop market is--the 'high perf' part of that has always been a niche so in that sense I can see Intel using their old fluxless solder for TIM since factories were already setup for it, perhaps.   I think the very fact they continue to release Extreme CPUs speaks to the fact there is still demand--across the world that is.  $1000+ CPUs I am imagining have quite the profit margin so lower volume still can work.  It's a big world ;o)

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what is the difference between X and K processors?

 

X processors from Intel are typically geared towards very intense users such as video editors, graphics design etc. (multi-core)

 

K series CPUs are more mainstream and are designed for users who want to push the regular CPUs beyond the regular limits. 

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Thank you Ben, however this does not really answer my question about how they differ from a hardware standpoint, versus who they are marketed to.  I may not have been clear on the question.

 

As for multicore, I see both K & X variants both exist as hex cores for example.  As for video editors and graphics designers--I have to think these folks aren't into overclocking like the gamer world is.   My understanding is that both have unlocked multipliers, correct or no?  If they both have unlocked multipliers, do they differ because they are bin-sorted to favor high clockspeeds in the X models?  I see the TDP is higher in the X processors.  What does that add?  Is Intel simply saying you'll need better cooling because likely you will be o'clocking them?  Thanks in advance for any insights you have on these questions.

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My understanding is that both have unlocked multipliers, correct or no?

 

Yes they both have unlocked multipliers.

 

 


 I see the TDP is higher in the X processors.  What does that add?

 

I believe this is due to the extra 2 cores on the X series lineup. 

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If they do go with sodder, this could be intel's way of increasing sales on chips where the profit margins are higher, thereby meaning better turnovers.

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...and only gaining about 200 MHz from what I've read.

 

True enough, having perused the de-lidding clubs, that seems to be about the average.

 

To be honest, a few months ago, I was seconds away from de-lidding mine, and then it struck me how little I'd actually gain. Just a few frames per second. And given that I was getting extremely good frame rate anyway, plus awesome smoothness, it was pointless to de-lidd. I abandoned the idea.

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I think since I'm not aiming for extreme overclocking--I'd hope to see 4.2-4.4Ghz in a six core processor--might be just as well served w/ the K variant and save a bundle.  I sense to get the most out of your Extreme processor you really need to cool it.

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Would I need a new MB in Sept. if I want to go from Haswell to extreme? I already need a new housing for the Corsair H110...hence I might even wait.

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what is the difference between X and K processors?  Don't the K processors have unlocked multipliers?  If so, why X?

 

Noel, the K & X thing is essentially just Intel marketing. It's just the name to distinguish the models and signifies it's one of the most "Xtreme" powerful chip in their line up.

 

As for price/performance difference. If you take the 3930K vs the 3930X, the X model has 15MB L3 Cache vs 12MB L3 Cache, 3.9Ghz Turbo Clock vs 3.8Ghz Turbo clock. This is really all your paying the premium for and the added Turbo Clock becomes irrelevant anyway when you're overclocking.

 

Both chips have 6 Cores and 12 Threads.

 

I don't know how accurate this is but just did a quick google and found this comparison. http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-3960X-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K-specs

 

As for TDP (Thermal Design Power), this basically relates to how much power a CPU will dissipate when running your software and relates to cooling. So, higher the TDP means the hotter the chip will tend to run, therefore better cooling would be required. This is obviously much more pertinent when overclocking.

 

Whilst I've never run one of these chips I think the price premium for the X is not worth it for the performance gained, definitely not for gaming. This may be different if you were using it for commercial purposes where the extra speed of the chip may pay for itself though.

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Noel, the K & X thing is essentially just Intel marketing. It's just the name to distinguish the models and signifies it's one of the most "Xtreme" powerful chip in their line up.

 

As for price/performance difference. If you take the 3930K vs the 3930X, the X model has 15MB L3 Cache vs 12MB L3 Cache, 3.9Ghz Turbo Clock vs 3.8Ghz Turbo clock. This is really all your paying the premium for and the added Turbo Clock becomes irrelevant anyway when you're overclocking.

 

Both chips have 6 Cores and 12 Threads.

 

I don't know how accurate this is but just did a quick google and found this comparison. http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-3960X-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K-specs

 

As for TDP (Thermal Design Power), this basically relates to how much power a CPU will dissipate when running your software and relates to cooling. So, higher the TDP means the hotter the chip will tend to run, therefore better cooling would be required. This is obviously much more pertinent when overclocking.

 

Whilst I've never run one of these chips I think the price premium for the X is not worth it for the performance gained, definitely not for gaming. This may be different if you were using it for commercial purposes where the extra speed of the chip may pay for itself though.

Very clear explanation--many thanks for that ;o)   K it is ;o)

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