Great looking coolers the Zalman's.

I used to have a Zalman myself some years ago. Interesting design, the "flower" design.

Nowhere near the D14 or Silver Arrow, the CNPS12X, something like 10 degrees hotter. And way too close to the MB according to this review...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik4jxk07RMo

 

How do you replace those fans? Guess you can't if they fail.

Great looking coolers the Zalman's.

 

I used to have a Zalman myself some years ago. Interesting design, the "flower" design.

 

Nowhere near the D14 or Silver Arrow, the CNPS12X, something like 10 degrees hotter. And way too close to the MB according to this review...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik4jxk07RMo

 

How do you replace those fans? Guess you can't if they fail.

 

I love my Zalman, they are great quality and good performance, albeit not the best on the market but they are no slouches either. As for the fan replacement, its a bit tricky but you have to contact Zalman and they will send you a new replacement if under warranty, and their fans can be removed, I have removed mine for deep cleaning before, just a bit tricky. I am waiting for Zalmans next design to be released which from speculation might be in a 4 fan cyclonic lateral configuration.

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I love my Zalman, they are great quality and good performance, albeit not the best on the market but they are no slouches either.

 

That's what it's all about. If it does exactly what you request of it then all is well. It's about you being happy with the product, and it fitting your needs. If it works for you, then it works, and nobody can argue with that.

 

On a purely technical note though, 10 degrees warmer is a lot hotter for an expensive cooler. The Coolermaster Hyper Evo is very cheap and cools better.

 

A 4 fan cyclonic lateral configuration sounds interesting. What worries me though, is that extra fans increase noise. I'd like to see the cooler heat sink efficacy itself improve, regardless of how many fans it has.

 

I like Zalman's direct contact heat pipe design. Coolermaster do the same thing.

 

At the end of the day it's about surface area, the greater the surface area the better, and that applies both to air coolers and closed loop coolers.

 

 

 

The new Zalman Ci water cooler looks very interesting. Combining air AND liquid technology. Will be interesting to see what it can do...

 

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/1009-zalman-ci-liquid-cooler-preview

Sounds like it then. Seems pretty definitive that's it's your PSU. Or one of the cables perhaps... the ATX.

 

It was the PSU. I installed the HX850 and all's been well since--trouble free setup.

 

After viewing ASUS' video guide for o'c X79 I followed his guide though a bit more conservatively, and all was well 4.0Ghz. Without trying any BIOS changes for it my 2400Mhz ram, at the CPU clock of 4.0Ghz I was only able to get to 1866Mhz. I set up Vcore as JJ had in the video, manual, while he set at >absolute maximum Vcore of 1.4 (he set at 1.41), I set mine down to 1.28 to all 6 cores. So I had stable 10 mins of Prime95 w/ max temp of 65C. I thought I understood the vCore setup but apparently not completely because VID is reported as 1.351 which is above my comfort level--SpeedStep is enabled so drops down to very low value. Here's the interesting part: I then tried the UEFI BIOS' preset o'clocks, chose turbo or extreme I don't recall what it was called, and now I'm seeing 4.157Ghz w/ DRAM now at 2366Mhz, VID is now only 1.21, and temp max is now only 59. Haven't tried Prime95 on this but in any case pretty impressive configuration for automated w/ 32Gb of ram.

Good news Noel.

 

I'm sure with a bit more experimentation, and experience with your new kit, you will be able to do better than 4.1 @ 59.

 

And if that's 59 in Prime, then it's a very low temp. Mid 50's while running FSX is what I normally shoot for. So more like 70 in Prime.

 

Look at a few more overclocking videos/articles, other than just the Asus example.

 

Not sure what TJ Max is for your CPU, but 80 degrees in Prime is probably the max acceptable while stress testing. So don't be shy about 70 in Prime.

 

Is that with Hyper threading on or off? Don't forget, your CPU will be 10-12 degrees cooler with HT off.

 

 

Not sure what TJ Max is for your CPU, but 80 degrees in Prime is probably the max acceptable while stress testing. So don't be shy about 70 in Prime.
 
Is that with Hyper threading on or off? Don't forget, your CPU will be 10-12 degrees cooler with HT off.

 

TJmax is 91C I believe.  I ran SciSoft Sandra's fairly long benchmark routine and temp got to 74C in one or two cores at times.  Despite the TJmax I think I read 64C is the top operating temp guideline from Intel.  I had HT on for both P95 & SSS.  Does HT offer anything positive for FSX do we know?

 

Yes I'm quite impressed so far.  I really can't explain how when I manually o'clocked I would see vCore stuck at 1.351.   Have to go look into some other guides and see if I can glean more.

 

The automated o'clock as actually 4.157 so getting close to my goal of 4.2.  I haven't looked into how the automated option does the setup other than to note that it changed BCLK to 126 which was a surprise.

 

I think I will be saving a couple of o'c profiles and the one I will try first w/ FSX will be the UEFI BIOS option to o'c by individual core versus all cores, having learned that the extra 5 cores will really only be used to enhance texture loading.  I can aim for a higher o'clock in the primary core as in maybe 4.4 or 4.6--is there an Affinity Mask setting in FSX where one can assign which particular core the main load for FSX goes to so one can tell which core to o'clock?  I'm thinking I could as I say o'c the one core and leave the others at default.  Then for apps like XPlane we can consider all-core overclocking.

 

Thanks again Martin for your various advise.  The case is really fabulous as is the D14.  So glad not to take on leak risk as there is really no need, and air flow if excellent in the case and it's very very quiet-in fact so quite I looked several times at if I had QFan setting correct for them.  For some reason, despite using chassis fan headers for the case fans the BIOS doesn't report on any except one of them.  I chose this mobo based on the fewest reported troubles from end users (by a margin too), overclockability was decent despite the target user was not really 'enthusiast' and was more workstation users.  I imagine heat management may not be as good as the ROG series boards.   Happy they will accept IB-E CPUs should my SB-E die an early death, though as conservative as I am that may not happen ;o)

 

In any case I am ultra fortunate to have a fabulous platform and it will be great to see how she runs FSX.    I will likely be using this same PC 5y from now as I'm not to keen on freq upgrades.

Despite the TJmax I think I read 64C is the top operating temp guideline from Intel. I had HT on for both P95 & SSS. Does HT offer anything positive for FSX do we know?

 

 

IIRC, 64C is actually TCase Noel. Measured from the centre of the CPU. It's the temp that can be measured using a thermocouple embedded in the centre of the heat spreader. [in the manufacturing plant by Intel] So not core temperature.

 

As the user would have to physically drill into the IHS to measure TCase, Intel usually provide a diode embedded between the cores to approximate this temperature. This is interpreted by the BIOS. Thus, your BIOS temp, or temps measured by utilities that come with your motherboard, refer to this temperature.

 

Core temperature that we overclockers refer to is different, it's the actual temperature of each core, and will be higher. Around 10 C higher or perhaps more, if I recall. Real Temp, Core Temp, measure the actual core temperatures, not T-Case.

 

Many get confused by the above, and puzzle over why their Asus temp monitoring, or BIOS temp readings are lower than Real Temp or Core temp utilities.

 

HT does not offer any benefit to FSX. If you disable it, your temps will be 10-12C lower. Switch it off, then overclock higher to bring your temps back to were they were, is the way to go.

I really can't explain how when I manually o'clocked I would see vCore stuck at 1.351.

Are you using the latest BIOS? Important to update the BIOS. What sort of voltage are you using, manual, or off-set?

 

will be the UEFI BIOS option to o'c by individual core versus all cores, having learned that the extra 5 cores will really only be used to enhance texture loading. I can aim for a higher o'clock in the primary core as in maybe 4.4 or 4.6--is there an Affinity Mask setting in FSX where one can assign which particular core the main load for FSX goes to so one can tell which core to o'clock?

 

 

 

Overclocking each core separately, was something I briefly considered. But overclocking is limited by the hottest core, so to be honest, I saw no advantage. Interesting experiment though. I'm sure there would be an AM setting that would accommodate you if you chose to give it a bash. But to be honest, I'd go for the best overclock I could get, in the conventional manner, before trying more elaborate experiments.

 

The case is really fabulous as is the D14.

 

 

To be honest, as great as closed loo coolers are, it baffles me why so many are oblivious to the fact that the D14, and Silver Arrow are just as good as the best closed loop coolers. It does bug me a bit when people keep advising others that they MUST go for closed loop coolers.

 

For some reason, despite using chassis fan headers for the case fans the BIOS doesn't report on any except one of them.

 

 

Update your BIOS, and do try Asus Fan Expert 2, if it's available for your board. It's fantastic, I use it to set a fan curve for all of my case fans. Works great, can't praise it enough.

 

I imagine heat management may not be as good as the ROG series boards.

 

 

 

Most of the fancy motherboard cooling design features, like thermal armour, are a bity of a gimmick I say. With the mighty cooling potential of the HAF, I say you have more than enough MB cooling capacity. :smile:

IIRC, 64C is actually TCase Noel. Measured from the centre of the CPU. It's the temp that can be measured using a thermocouple embedded in the centre of the heat spreader. [in the manufacturing plant by Intel] So not core temperature.

 

As the user would have to physically drill into the IHS to measure TCase, Intel usually provide a diode embedded between the cores to approximate this temperature. This is interpreted by the BIOS. Thus, your BIOS temp, or temps measured by utilities that come with your motherboard, refer to this temperature.

 

Core temperature that we overclockers refer to is different, it's the actual temperature of each core, and will be higher. Around 10 C higher or perhaps more, if I recall. Real Temp, Core Temp, measure the actual core temperatures, not T-Case.

 

Many get confused by the above, and puzzle over why their Asus temp monitoring, or BIOS temp readings are lower than Real Temp or Core temp utilities.

 

HT does not offer any benefit to FSX. If you disable it, your temps will be 10-12C lower. Switch it off, then overclock higher to bring your temps back to were they were, is the way to go.

 

Are you using the latest BIOS? Important to update the BIOS. What sort of voltage are you using, manual, or off-set?

 

 

 

 

Overclocking each core separately, was something I briefly considered. But overclocking is limited by the hottest core, so to be honest, I saw no advantage. Interesting experiment though. I'm sure there would be an AM setting that would accommodate you if you chose to give it a bash. But to be honest, I'd go for the best overclock I could get, in the conventional manner, before trying more elaborate experiments.

 

 

 

To be honest, as great as closed loo coolers are, it baffles me why so many are oblivious to the fact that the D14, and Silver Arrow are just as good as the best closed loop coolers. It does bug me a bit when people keep advising others that they MUST go for closed loop coolers.

 

 

 

Update your BIOS, and do try Asus Fan Expert 2, if it's available for your board. It's fantastic, I use it to set a fan curve for all of my case fans. Works great, can't praise it enough.

 

 

 

 

Most of the fancy motherboard cooling design features, like thermal armour, are a bity of a gimmick I say. With the mighty cooling potential of the HAF, I say you have more than enough MB cooling capacity. :smile:

 

 

 

Most of the fancy motherboard cooling design features, like thermal armour, are a bity of a gimmick I say. With the mighty cooling potential of the HAF, I say you have more than enough MB cooling capacity.

 

On the automated overclock I just changed the max multiplier to 34x126 BCLK and no problems at 4.3Ghz, memory almost 2400Mhz, and temps, having positioned the case in its normal place in front of the AC unit core temps never went over 54 in FSX.  Ahh yes, FSX.  Well, did a very complete new setup w/ everything now loaded for a test fly in the ORBX FTX area of the American PNW, and performance isn't too impressive yet, but this I expected, somewhat.  I know I have the horsepower in spades for excellent performance, and I did the typical proven additions to fsx.cfg.   I also sensed IQ had become somewhat softer, less crisp than w/ my former rig, but it's early and I know where to look having setup my prior build for great performance.  Despite a flawless installation of everything including REX Essentials Plus I see there is a bug in it in not pulling up weather file it is supposed to generate after it completely initializes and the user can than choose Fly Now.  

 

I'm a little unsure of Titan & things like bufferpools which = 0 in my last rig, and Affinity Mask which I used 14 previously and tried initially w/ 62.

 

I'm a little loathe to change the BIOS since it is self-overclocking so well w/ VID now at 1.22 at 4.3Ghz, so very low heat.  But, it's a thought.

I'm not familiar with your motherboard, or CPU, but the way I understand it is that changing your BCLK will affect the speed of your RAM and every other component with a clock associated with it. Raising the multiplier affects nothing but the CPU. Thus you would be able to stick to the XMP setting.

 

According to this guide, approximately 90-100% of CPUs can go up to 4.5GHz.

 

http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=10512

 

This might be useful...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx2z07sFM2I&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL91E32848D715CA0A

 

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2254410

 

As JJ said bclk shouldn't really be modified from it's stock operating value.

 

Are you sure it's not your CPU Strap that's changed to 125? Again JJ recommends that the strap not be adjusted. The fact that the strap has changed is why your memory divider has changed I would say.

 

My preference would be to overclock manually... but keep it simple.

 

Tell you what was interesting in JJ's video though. He is very positive about overlooking each core separately, and states that such a strategy does indeed allow you to overlook those cores higher, with a far less voltage penalty. So yes, contrary to my previous opinion, this does seem like it might be useful for FSX. Not sure just how useful though, don't think it would be that significant.

 

REX Essentials Plus I see there is a bug in it in not pulling up weather file it is supposed to generate after it completely initializes and the user can than choose Fly Now.  

 

 

Essential Plus service pack 2 will be out next week Noel.

 

I'm a little loathe to change the BIOS since it is self-overclocking so well w/ VID now at 1.22 at 4.3Ghz, so very low heat.  But, it's a thought.

 

 

 

Save it as a profile. It would be a shame not to experiment further, and miss out on a better configuration.

I'm not familiar with your motherboard, or CPU, but the way I understand it is that changing your BCLK will affect the speed of your RAM and every other component with a clock associated with it. Raising the multiplier affects nothing but the CPU. Thus you would be able to stick to the XMP setting.

 

According to this guide, approximately 90-100% of CPUs can go up to 4.5GHz.

 

Manually changing the CPU Strap ends up changing the BCLK value to the same one. Actually I wasn't able to boot even at 2133Mhz keeping BCLK at 100 and DIMM voltage at default 1.65. So yes I found it interesting that their automated routine did changing BCLK to 126.375. I know what you're saying about manually setting this up, but seriously as it is now simply by starting w/ the automated extreme setting one can just change the CPU ratio maximum (the automated extreme profile sets this at 33, hence 126.375x33=4.17Ghz) to a higher level and retain the other values (like the CPU strap or whatever was done to change BCLK to 126.375). So far, all I did was change this value to 34 and voila now we're at 42.96Ghz. What's remarkable is that memory is running nearly at 2400Mhz, VID hovers around 1.28, and temps are low accordingly. In FSX last night w/ the A/C running I was looking only at 56C which I thought was remarkable in that I have 6 cores running. So gosh I have to go ahead and start w/ simply trying a ratio of 35 next to try 4.42Ghz next and so forth. Despite following JJ's guide I never got VID to less that 1.35 or so w/ a much lower (4.0Ghz), and this makes me think his guide guarantees stability by pumping in more voltage and so eventually can do better w/ max CPU frequency. Not sure how the magic happens w/ the automated extreme profile but so far it's not only simple but works! I'll definitely try seeing what we can do manually, and especially w/ per core o'clock as you mention. As for BCLK affecting other components I think it's only related to ram and cpu, so PCI bus is isolated. Even so, I guess not all CPUs can cope w/ higher than 125, though some apparently can per JJ.

 

One thing that troubles me is Q-Fan settings. Despite setting for 100% CPU fan speed at a CPU temp of 55C and up, the CPU fan on the D-14 doesn't ramp up to full until the CPU gets closer to 75 it appears. It's so dang quiet I just changed all of them to Q-FAN disabled, and it's still quiet even running at full speed. Big slow fans...One trouble is that while there are 4-pin chassis fan headers and lots of them, none of them sense the fan speeds except CPU and chassis fan #1. Chassis fan leads have only 3 wires so I guess this is why they are unable to be monitored for speeds. Any ideas if it's possible overcome this and have all of the HaF's fans monitored?

 

Yes I saw others were having trouble w/ Essentials Plus over past two days so I think my install is fine, just something amiss on their end. Great program it is ;o)

 

I'm so happy w/ this machine! One minor annoyance is that PCIe 3.0 is only possible when using SB-E + X79 by running an executable from nVidia. nV says they can't guarantee stability w/ SB-E at PCIe 3.0 and indeed they reports some timing troubles on some boards using their executable. Other users have asked for a compatibility list of mobos that do well at 3.0 but so far I don't think nV has published one. They do note IB CPUs will run PCIe 3.0 I think it probably makes no practical difference in FSX, but perhaps could w/ XPlane 64.

One thing that troubles me is Q-Fan settings. Despite setting for 100% CPU fan speed at a CPU temp of 55C and up, the CPU fan on the D-14 doesn't ramp up to full until the CPU gets closer to 75 it appears. It's so dang quiet I just changed all of them to Q-FAN disabled, and it's still quiet even running at full speed. Big slow fans...One trouble is that while there are 4-pin chassis fan headers and lots of them, none of them sense the fan speeds except CPU and chassis fan #1. Chassis fan leads have only 3 wires so I guess this is why they are unable to be monitored for speeds. Any ideas if it's possible overcome this and have all of the HaF's fans monitored?

 

Yep, my D14 was purchased prior to your model, so not PWM fans, so full RPM. Found the same thing, ultra quiet. You understand now why I've previously emphasised how quiet it is. And how closed loop water coolers often cheat by fitting high RPM noisy fans, and then claiming they are superior coolers to the D14.

 

As for fan monitoring, do update your BIOS. I recall that there was a BIOS update for mine that added this feature.

 

Do try Fan Xpert 2, great software for monitoring ALL of your case fans and generating a fan curve. It does work with both 3 pin and four pin fans. It monitors and controls all of my fans, regardless if 3 pin or 4 pin. 

 

 

About 1:32 in the video. :smile:

 

 

http://event.asus.com/2012/mb/p8z77_series_motherboards/page3_fan.htm

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i-aTUMuIB0

 

 

As for fan monitoring, do update your BIOS. I recall that there was a BIOS update for mine that added this feature.

 

I'm a little reluctant to update the BIOS (I have the next most recent one installed now) because my sense,  coming from albeit limited experience, that new revisions prevent getting too close to out of sync as it were.  Put another way, earlier BIOS' have o'clocked better for me, certainly in terms of memory performance.   ASUS describes the latest BIOS for my board as 'improving stability & compatibility', and as I say I have a sense this is done at the expense of performance.  And since the current automated overclock is acting very rock solid at 4.3Ghz/2370Mhz/1.22-1.28 VID I hate to risk that w/ a new BIOS.  Also, my current BIOS certainly senses all 4 chassis fans plugged into 4 pins but doesn't report their speed except for chassis #1--I have to look again and see how #1 fan differs if it does, and if it doesn't that helps support the argument for a BIOS update.

 

 

Do try Fan Xpert 2, great software for monitoring ALL of your case fans and generating a fan curve. It does work with both 3 pin and four pin fans. It monitors and controls all of my fans, regardless if 3 pin or 4 pin.

 

 

Sounds good.  OK so you're saying a 3-pin on the fan side and a 4-pin on the board and still can sense rpm?

The advice is still not to update the BIOS unless it's required, but these days, on modern boards, it's not as much of an issue as it used to be, it is safer.

 

I don't think there are any compromises with a new BIOS. I've flashed my BIOS many times, and only ever seen improvements. Asus don't provide a new BIOS unless the old one was bugged in some way, or to supply new CPU compatibility.

 

As you probably read in the other thread, I was forced to flash my BIOS yesterday, due to an issue.

 

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Sounds good. OK so you're saying a 3-pin on the fan side and a 4-pin on the board and still can sense rpm?

Headers 1-4 support 3 pin and 4 pin on my board, in regard to Fan Xpert monitoring compatibility. So yes they are 4 pin headers.

 

 

I have 4 case fans, two 140 on the top, one 120 at the front, and one 120 at the rear... all controlled by fan Xpert 2.

 

Only the 120 at the front is PWM, the rest are 3 pin.

 

Edit: I've just checked on the Asus site. Your motherboard, comes with Fan Expert+ as it's an older MB than mine.

 

Check to see if Fan Xpert 2 is available for your board. Fan Xpert 2 is required for 3 pin fan calibration. You'll be out of luck if + hasn't been updated, or 2 made available.

Check to see if Fan Xpert 2 is available for your board. Fan Xpert 2 is required for 3 pin fan calibration. You'll be out of luck if + hasn't been updated, or 2 made available.

 

I think I'm out of luck Martin. I used not the brightest criteria for this mobo selection in the end I feel now. However, that being said, it's working quite well and if the main issue is I am unable to control fan speeds that's pretty small. There is clearly something odd about how Q-fan functions--I can set it manually in the BIOS and speed does not increase despite defining the 100% speed when CPU temp gets to 55C--fan just spins at its ultra low speed. The notes say when temp gets to 75C it will fun at full speed, apparently regardless of what it was manually set at? I'll go ahead and try a BIOS update who knows may help. Actually, the CHA fans can run at full speed and it's still so quiet it doesn't matter, however I'd like to be able to control the CPU fan so at idle it slows down.

 

I went ahead and did the JJ o'clock to 4.4 all cores last night: no problems at 1.33v. Dicey below that. Best memory speed at that 4.4Ghz is 1866Mhz--but I haven't altered timings to try to improve that. I did a short test in FSX at auto-overclock 4.3Ghz/2377Mhz/BCLK 126, versus 4.4/1866/BCLK 100 and they are indistinguishable.

 

Performance is noticeably better compared to my old PC--pretty much scaled up as predicted. If you look at the raw output of the main CORE0 in SB-E versus Core2 Quad CORE0, you're going to get about 30-35%% bump up, plus a little more for better o'clock. That's about it. So when I load the QW757 at KSEA in FTX PNW scenery, all sliders hard right in heavy thunderstorm weather, I'm seeing only 23FPS, however this is w/ framelock at 30, w/ the new system at 4.3. If I set the identical scenario on Q9650 system at 3.7Ghz with framelock at 30 I get 13fps. I got around this by changing framelock to UNLIMITED, and when I do this will get about 20FPS. Texture loading suffers though and so flying into KSEA on the old system gets pretty blurry textures--that should be greatly improved now.

 

I am struck once again, albeit not surprised, by how poorly the sim can utilize computing power. This was known all along and I built this system as stated many times for a different sim: XP 64, P3D version. So far, it's functioning exactly as hoped--noticeably better than my old sys, but when you pull out all the stops in FSX you're not going to get great performance on this or any system, if great is defined as ideal. It was good enough for enjoyment previously for me, and now it's 'good enough x 1.35'. We yearn for a better simulator engine that can better support multithreading, multicore, more ram, better graphics APIs. I'll be in great shape if and when that day comes!

Addendum:  Fan Xpert+ does work fine for controlling CPU fan & CHA 1 fans yes--w/o the BIOS update. I just didn't understand how to use it and had success w/ my old board just using Q-Fan.

 

Why the other CHA fans aren't recognized I guess is because Xpert+ doesn't support reading 3 pin fans or something like that, but as I say they are so quiet it's ok.