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flyaway

New system, help picking cpu

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Hi guys, Im thinking about building a new rig, FSX oriented

Regarding CPU I cant decide between

 

i7 3770k or i7 4770k. Also what do u think about a i7 2700k

I dont wanna get into the delidding businees, I will certainly overclock tho.

I want a smooth FSX, any suggestions are welcome

 

Thx

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FSX always wants and can use more, get the fastest you can afford, which in this case is the 4770k.

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How are its overclocking capabilities?

Needs delidding?

Previously I had an i5 2500k @4.7ghz. How does it compare?

Thx

 

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i7 3770K Haswell don't overclock that well plus you safe on not having to buy a new Motherboard.

Haswell is only 5%-10% faster clock for clock is not worth it IMO. 


 Average Haswell only overclocks to 4.3Ghz at best. Again go with Ivy. yep you need delidding Haswell forfeit you warranty nd all of that. Not that you wont with Ivy if you want to go pass 4.5Ghz or 4.6 Ghz(in some cases)

 

    P.S. IMO not worth it, save the money and go Ivy.

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Dont u need delidding Ivy as well??

Currently I have no rig so I'll have to buy a mobo anyways.

I read somewhere that a good overclocked 2700k will pair an overclocked 3770k without delidding.

I will have to delid the Ivy to get better clock and over perform the 2700k but im afraid of doing this and ruining the chip.

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Flyaway,

 

        My honest opinion is to go with Sandy if you can still find it. Is a better chip; it will last longer because of the solder and you don't have to delidding. The tim they use under the IHS is crappy and it will degrade with  time (not over night, but still....). Delidding is not worth it (yes it will lower temp, but if something goes wrong you are on your own (you know what I mean). The only way I will do something like that is if you have the finance's to go buy another chip. Finally I suggested Ivy even with the heat problem because compare to haswell is a little better.

 

    Honestly wish you the best of luck!!!!

 

 

     Happy Flying !!!!!

 

 

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Further to this, in relation to FSX specifically... pretty rigorous benchmark tests have been done (by Doug Horton) which specifically looked at CPU only in regard to FSX performance. He found that it doesn't really matter what type of CPU you have, and whether it has 1 core, 2 cores, 4 or 8 etc... There was only a direct correlation between raw CPU speed and FSX frame rates. I.e. a single core CPU overclocked to 4.0GHz (for example) would outperform an i7 CPU running at 3.5GHz (for example).

 

So, basically, the conclusion of the tests was... just buy whichever CPU you can overclock to the highest speed.

 

Of course, this only applies to FSX performance. If you want to run other software and other games that may be designed better for multi-core processing, then you have to consider that as well.

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I.e. a single core CPU overclocked to 4.0GHz (for example) would outperform an i7 CPU running at 3.5GHz (for example).

 

But you would not be able to use the Affinetymask tweak to load the other cores which give better smoothness?

E.g When i run FSX on a single core on my CPU it stuttters, when I take the load of the first core and spread it on the others it's much smoother and takes away these stutters.... I wouldn't be able to do that if I had only 1 core?

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True,

 

      The speed of instruction per clock is also important (IPC) plus the overclocking in essence is what will give the best performance

 

     example: (hypothetical number)

 

         Sandy @ 5.0 ghz = Ivy @ 4.5 ghz  = Haswell @ 4.2 ghz

 

      P.S. That why upgrading from sandy or Ivy is not relevant or necessary. To me it all come to built quality at least in between Sandy , Ivy and Haswell. Solder last longer than thermal interface material (TIM/ paste) exept if the TIM is good quality witch is not the case with Ivy or Haswell Intel used cheap Tim. That's why the heat and overclocking issues, also the fact the die is getting too small (not allowing the heat to dissipate as well vs the 32 nm die (Sandy))

 

    Happy Flying!!!!

 

 

 

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 Ivy and Haswell. Solder last longer than thermal interface material (TIM/ paste) exept if the TIM is good quality witch is not the case with Ivy or Haswell Intel used cheap Tim. That's why the heat and overclocking issues,

    Happy Flying!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

From what I understand, the thermal issues with Ivy Bridge at high overclocks aren't related to the "quality" of the TIM, it's more to do with the "thickness" of the TIM.

 

Regarding reduced CPU longevity with TIM as opposed to solder, it's mere conjecture at this point. It may well be that the TIM is up to the task.

 

It may be a fallacy that the Ivy Bridge TIM is low quality.

 

Moreover, given that we enthusiast change our CPU's on a regular basis, it's probably not relevant.

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Martin Wilby,

Here is directly from Intel Spec sheet:

 

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/3rd-gen-core-lga1155-socket-guide.html:

 

  See Page # 88:

 

         Stated the Thermal interface material used is: Dow Corning TC - 1996

Also here is the test from Hardware Secret that shows that such Tim don't even make the top tier:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/Thermal-Compound-Roundup-August-2011/1360

 

Have you seen the thermal paste when you are going to replace it on top of the CPU, it look like is disintegrating (that is because heat, chemical composition [metal vs grease] quality, in other words it degrades with time) and it needs to be replacing. Oh!!!! wait if you remove the cap or IHS what happen ? ........ you void your warranty....... Right (if you have the finances you can replace it (self insurance), but not everybody has that capability.

Bottom line Intel has change the solder for a TIM developed in 1996 and a cheap one too. Case in point is like we all know their is lack of competition, forcing people (overclocker's and flightsimmer's) to buy the xtreme lineup witch is overprice and not that beneficial (at least for FSX). They are deceiving us IMO, because if I buy a K part you expect bigger overclocking potential at least 4.5 ghz or 4.6 ghz not only 4.2 ghz - 4.3 ghz on average (at best, I repeat average). They are also deceiving us (IMO) because they are charging an additional $20 -$30 for a K and we are getting almost nothing (repeat almost). Finally if you want to think that all they do is ok........  Well  

 

P.S. Again as a fellow Simmer all I want to do with this reply is open people's Eyes, so people wake up and stop accepting this kind of treatment.

 

Happy Flying any how !!!

 

 

 

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Well yes, TC-1996 is obviously not going to be as good as something like Arctic Silver, or Liquid Pro, but if you look at the chart, you can see there's only 3 degrees in it. So hardly a massive temperature difference.

And that 3 degrees is nothing like the 15-30 degree reduction in temps users see after de-lidding and replacing the TIM. Even installing just Arctic Silver under the IHS [rather than Liquid Pro] engenders much higher temperature reduction than the mere 3 degrees disadvantage imposed by TC-1996.

Hence... why I say the "thickness" of the TIM is the primary reason why de-lidding is so effective.

You also mentioned longevity, your hypothesis that TC-1996 would not last long before degrading. Do you have any definitive evidence of that? And if you do, is that degradation time frame greater than the average users tendency to replace their CPU?

 

 

Have you seen the thermal paste when you are going to replace it on top of the CPU, it look like is disintegrating (that is because heat, chemical composition [metal vs grease] quality, in other words it degrades with time) and it needs to be replacing.


Yes it does look like that. But given that the IHS and TIM has been disturbed during the de-lidding process I'm not surprised. And given that de-lidding is done by most users on a new chip, your degradation hypothesis does not apply. There is no chance of degradation on a new chip.

if I buy a K part you expect bigger overclocking potential at least 4.5 ghz or 4.6 ghz not only 4.2 ghz - 4.3 ghz


Average overclock on a non de-lidded 3770K is higher than that. 4.5 GHz is easy on a non de-lidded Ivy Bridge. Exactly what you asked for.

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Martin,

 

        You are missing the point specially on a K part the Tim under the IHS shouldn't be there in the first place. What I'm trying to convey is to stop been ok with things done wrong. Not just Intel but any company that does things like this. Wake up man!!!, I know about thinckness. Again the thing about this is we are paying a premium ($20-$30) for K parts  and getting fool with poor quality TIM.

 

 

      P.S. That's is not ok!!  also a few overclocking site doing their testing shows that after over clocking the tim will degrade around 3 yrs. Also you have made up your mind and I'm not going to change it, but at least want to informed the rest well.

 

 

     Any how happy Flying!!!!

 

 

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Quote

You are missing the point specially on a K part the Tim under the IHS shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

Yes it should be there, because Intel decide such things, they are the designers of the chip. Intel design their CPU's, not you.

 

 

Quote

What I'm trying to convey is to stop been ok with things done wrong.

 

I didn't say I was okay with it, what I said was, that the primary reason de-lidding is so effective is due to the thickness of the TIM, not the quality of the TIM. Which you disagreed with, see below.

 

Quote

I know about thinckness.

 

Then why did you say the following...

 

 

Quote

exept if the TIM is good quality witch is not the case with Ivy or Haswell Intel used cheap Tim. That's why the heat and overclocking issues,

 

You then went on to inform me how the Intel TIM "didn't even make the top tier".

 

If you have changed your mind, and now agree that the TIM thickness is the primary reason de-lidding is so effective, and that the quality of the TIM is a secondary, minor factor, then great.

 

Quote

also a few overclocking site doing their testing shows that after over clocking the tim will degrade around 3 yrs.

 

Can you show us a link for that, and a quote?

 

QuoteAlso you have made up your mind and I'm not going to change it,

 

I have made up my mind that the TIM thickness is the primary issue... that was my only point, and it was in response to you claiming it was the quality of the TIM that was the issue. ;)

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