New system, help picking cpu

[martin-w 3,238]

To the original poster:

 

I would reccomend going with one of the new Haswell CPUs. If you purchase a decent closed loop water cooler, you will not need to delid your CPU. You also should have acceptable temps as long as you are going to be OC'ing around 4.5-4.7GHZ.

 

 

Hi Ben.

 

It is worth pointing out though, if you don't mind, that a high end air cooler, like my NH-D14, or a Thermalright Silver Arrow, is also capable of matching or in some cases beating a closed loop water cooler.

 

I run with A D14, 3770K, not de-lidded, at 4.5 GHz. 55 degrees in FSX.

 

It will also run at 4.6 GHz with no issues at all.

 

Closed loop coolers are great for space saving though. The D14 is big, very big.

 

In regard to the Sandy bridge, Ivy Bridge debate... I would agree with you. It would make no sense to me, to purchase a CPU that is two generations older. I would go with Haswell. An overclock of 4.3-4.5 on Haswell, with it's faster architecture, would satisfy me nicely.

 

It should be remembered, that we are talking about small frame rate increases here. A few hundred megahertz is minimal in terms of frame rate.

[westman 257]

on average[/u]

as per pcpro article above.

No. Coments i shall never comment anything you write any more you ar a good pen fighter.

Dont now your skills in the art of OC and a dont care , Thanks for your contibrutions for

higher performance in Fsx.

 

Kind Regards / hasse

[martin-w 3,238]

Quote

QuoteYou have talked and talked and talked of Tim thinckness been the primary reason. When I have show up directly from Intel spec papers the main reason for the thermal issues. They selected a cheap Tim develop in 1996.

 

 

And a little more....

QuoteSpeaking of temperatures, surely people will be saying “Haswell has the same problem as Ivy Bridge,” referring to the thermal paste issue. Yes, Haswell has thermal paste, but from Very Authoritative People, the TIM is not the problem. As has been posited across the net when people de-lid Ivy Bridge chips with great results, it’s really the black adhesive that’s the culprit. When you cut out that adhesive, it allows the IHS to sit closer to the CPU die, meaning there is less thermal paste through which the heat has to travel, leading to significantly lower temperatures. Intel’s TIM is really quite good, but the manufacturing process leads to that glue being just a little too thick, which is why you see such temperatures.

 

 

http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell

 

http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=1167345

 

Plenty more evidence on the net.

[martin-w 3,238]

Deleted

[jjcruz78 0]

Martin,

 

       Their is going to be a lot of evidence of course. The thing you are missing is you have to get the big picture. in other words is the reviewer been bias for example, what is he really trying to say. You can't take everything from granted, you should take it with a grain of salt. Do you know anything about cherry picking a cpu ? .........   That is when they pick the best part, in this case the cpu. Let me ask you something; is doing that telling people the real picture of overclocking and performance potential ? (No). Their is two different  type of cpu: engineering sample and retail. The ES has proven to be better than the average retail sample, that mean it will overclock better (4.7 ghz on average) retail is averaging around 4.3 ghz (sources: Pcpro, Pcper, TTLC, Extremetech .......) FYI I never take anything at face value, I research and research and then analyze it (ex. how truthful are they been and so on.....). Yes sir I read the forum saying it runs hot and you have to delidding. Is delidding save, secure ? (No) If something goes wrong you have to pay for a new cpu, oh!!!! wait another $300.00 plus....  , that my friend is expensive and not everybody can afford that. In reference to Overclockers they got and engineering sample, that is not real world. Have they posted a followed up article about retail sample and their potential .........   Nooooo

 

      P.S. Bottom Line you can take thing for granted a few guys in a forum unless they done extensive research and analysis

                are just miss informing

 

 

       Any how Happy Flying!!!!

[Adam T Lutley 12]

I'm also in the process of updating my 6+ year old PC, with something that can actually run X-Plane 10 (and current PC games) well. When I first saw this thread, I thought that I would finally get some solid advice about which CPU might work best. But after reading ALL the posts in this thread, I'm more confused than ever. I still have no idea if I'd be better off with a 4770K Haswell or a 3770K Ivy Bridge, or with something else.

 

I have only had one other PC custom built for me . . . and my last effort didn't go so well, as I'm not very good with the hardware part (and there are way too many choices to make). And now I'm trying very hard to get this one right, but how am I suppose to decide on a CPU (which is like the first decision I need to make), when there are two so totally opposite views of Haswell?

 

I get that you are having a good debate and all, but it this is not at all helpful to someone like me.

I can only share my personal experience and nothing more. I debated the Sandy vs Ivy Bridge question and finally opted for the 3770K. Maybe I got an above average chip but I was able to overclock my example to 4.5 Ghz using a $30 Cooler Master 212 EVO heatsink with 2 fans in a push-pull arrangement. Temps are very reasonable and FSX performance is stellar.

[meshman 109]

Also may I ask how old are you ?

Any how you said you not trying to be arrogant. Let me tell you something you still have to grow up a lot.

 

 

    Sad .... :( 

 

     

 

One of the things I like about Avsim is that there can be civil discussions about most any subject matter related to flight simulation. While people may not agree with another's comments, it is generally done in a respectful tone and manner. Your comments above, coupled with other's you have made do not represent the type of discussions that take place here at Avsim.

 

Your comments are no more valid, so they do not warrant special bolding and resized font. The unwarranted jabs at a person's age or maturity are unjustified, in my opinion. But this is just my view on the matter, so I've asked that an administrator review the situation. In my passion for things FS related, the last thing I need to see if a bunch of posting that border on a pre-teen response of "I know you are, but what am I...".

 

What you may want to contribute to the Avsim community is up to you. The "how" it is contributed is subject to common courtesy and Avsim rules.

[ant_1984 20]

Meshman - couldn't have said it better myself!

 

We are all entitled to our own thoughts and opinions so lets just keep it civil and mature. After all we are all here because we share something in common, a love of flight and flight simulation.

[jjcruz78 0]

 I not commenting anymore in here,

 

 

        The main purpose of me helping over here was to bring an un bias truthful picture of thing. Because people are basin their purchasing decision  on information presented over here. I wanted people (fellow simmer's) to get the best parts possible and to know what to expect, so they don't get disappointed and miss inform.

 

        Happy Flying!!!! 

 

      bye!

 

 

 

 

 

[SpiritFlyer 987]

jjcruz78,

 

 

One of the things I like about Avsim is that there can be civil discussions about most any subject matter related to flight simulation. While people may not agree with another's comments, it is generally done in a respectful tone and manner. Your comments above, coupled with other's you have made do not represent the type of discussions that take place here at Avsim.

 

Your comments are no more valid, so they do not warrant special bolding and resized font. The unwarranted jabs at a person's age or maturity are unjustified, in my opinion. But this is just my view on the matter, so I've asked that an administrator review the situation. In my passion for things FS related, the last thing I need to see if a bunch of posting that border on a pre-teen response of "I know you are, but what am I...".

 

What you may want to contribute to the Avsim community is up to you. The "how" it is contributed is subject to common courtesy and Avsim rules.

 

I could not agree more, and can't say it any better, if I tried. Words don't cut it, but these come close. I have just spent an hour reading your posts and not only is the information you shout out downright bizarre, your conduct to other members abusive and not welcome here.

 

Perhaps you deserve a warning from me, but when I see so many offences and so many others trying to warn you, that is just a passing thought. For abuse upon abuse, riddled throughout this forum in the past couple of weeks, you are hereby banned from Avsim.

 

I will send a copy of this to your email address.

 

Kind regards,

 I not commenting anymore in here,

 

 

        The main purpose of me helping over here was to bring an un bias truthful picture of thing. Because people are basin their purchasing decision  on information presented over here. I wanted people (fellow simmer's) to get the best parts possible and to know what to expect, so they don't get disappointed and miss inform.

 

        Happy Flying!!!! 

 

      bye!

 

I guess he could read the writing on the wall. Just discovered he had more than one identity on AVSIM. That is a banning offence as well, so he is more than justifiably banned.

 

Kind regards,

[meshman 109]

Now that we might return to the thread's purpose...

 

I wanted to mention to the OP and Arwen that there is a thread in the Flight1 Hardware forums, that while titled for the latest nVidia cards, does veer off into a new Haswell system that someone has picked up. Worth a quick review, as it mentions positive points about the new CPU compared to Ivy, using higher rated memory and also addresses how new technology brings more frequent updates to things like BIOS.

 

Bottom line: being on the cutting edge has it's good points and some not so good points. It's up to the buyer to decide if the results might warrant a little more effort.

[Arwen 289]

I can only share my personal experience and nothing more. I debated the Sandy vs Ivy Bridge question and finally opted for the 3770K. Maybe I got an above average chip but I was able to overclock my example to 4.5 Ghz using a $30 Cooler Master 212 EVO heatsink with 2 fans in a push-pull arrangement. Temps are very reasonable and FSX performance is stellar.

 

Thanks, I really appreciate you sharing your personal experience . . . which is so much more meaningful to me than when people post opinions that are just based on what they have read elsewhere.

 

The good thing about the internet is that you can find so much information of just about anything . . . the bad thing about the internet is that you can almost always find completely opposite views about nearly everything.  And that often leaves me with nothing concrete to help me make a decision. When I was buying a new sea kayak, I had the exact same issue.  Even the designer of my kayak, who I had met in person, told me that the kayak that I wanted was too big for me, and that I would not be strong enough to edge it correctly.  I ended up going with my instincts, and finally just took the plunge (literally) and it turns out that I was right after all . . . my kayak fits me like it was made especially for me, and I have no trouble at all edging it,

Now that we might return to the thread's purpose...

 

I wanted to mention to the OP and Arwen that there is a thread in the Flight1 Hardware forums, that while titled for the latest nVidia cards, does veer off into a new Haswell system that someone has picked up. Worth a quick review, as it mentions positive points about the new CPU compared to Ivy, using higher rated memory and also addresses how new technology brings more frequent updates to things like BIOS.

 

Bottom line: being on the cutting edge has it's good points and some not so good points. It's up to the buyer to decide if the results might warrant a little more effort.

 

I'll definitely take a look at that thread.  Thanks!  The thing is, I don't buy a new PC very often (look at my PC's specs), so it would be nice to have something that was going to at least be supported for a while. I'm leaning towards the Haswell, but it will likely be another month before I can afford to invest that much money , , , and I know that I'm going to change my mind several times before I finally place my order. Making decisions is just NOT something that I do easily.

[meshman 109]

Thanks, I really appreciate you sharing your personal experience . . . which is so much more meaningful to me than when people post opinions that are just based on what they have read elsewhere.

 

 

Just to add my $.02 based upon this comment of your's and so it won't appear as though I am just opining. My new parts showed up about a week ago and I am slowly finishing up putting everything together. I wen with the safe route, which is a 3570k. I could have gone Haswell or a 3770k, but most of my play time is within FSX, though I will see how X-Plane matures and also how P3D does. So hyper-threading wasn't important enough for me to warrant the 3770k version and since my primary system is also my development system, having something tried and true won out over the newer technology.

 

So to make me feel better after buying such a wimpy chip, I got one of the new 770 video cards and a nice high res monitor for the pixels to be displayed upon. That's what I'm waiting to see in action, even if it's locked at 30fps! B)

[flyaway 11]

Decided to go with Haswell. Now the question is, air or water for cooling?

 

Nh-d14 and h100i have similar performance. h100i is probably better but still higher risks, pump failure, spills etc.

 

I want to get the best of my overclock and push the chip to the max tho, so maybe the risks are worth it.

Your thoughts?

[VeryBumpy 272]

I'll never go back to air. My H60 system performs great and more importantly to me, is near silent.