Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Michael Moe

ATI , Clouds and DX10

Recommended Posts

During a flight right now from London to Copenhagen i was testing some clouds distance settings in FL390 and found out that my PC does not like Clouds in DX10.

 

When i set the draw distance to MAX the FPS dropped to 8 frome 22. This was not so dramatic in DX9.

 

Any ideer´s? this is with medium covering btw

 

Michael Moe

 

PS!

Normally i would leave it at 60nm draw distance but found it weird to this DX10  huge drop.

 

I7-950@4,2

ATI HD5870 1GB OC

SSD128GB W7 64

RAPTOR 300GB 10000RPM FSX

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

During a flight right now from London to Copenhagen i was testing some clouds distance settings in FL390 and found out that my PC does not like Clouds in DX10.

 

When i set the draw distance to MAX the FPS dropped to 8 frome 22. This was not so dramatic in DX9.

 

Any ideer´s? this is with medium covering btw

 

Michael Moe

 

PS!

Normally i would leave it at 60nm draw distance but found it weird to this DX10  huge drop.

 

I7-950@4,2

ATI HD5870 1GB OC

SSD128GB W7 64

RAPTOR 300GB 10000RPM FSX

 

What AA setting? Default DX10 AA and what are you setting your AA method to in the driver (or Radeon Pro)? Multisample? Adaptive or Supersample? Cloud density Max? High?

 

I will try it in the default 747. I have NEVER been that high in FSX to be honest. Light and Medium twins is my cup o tea ala JS41/B200/Duke Turbine

 

C.

Share this post


Link to post

Not too many clouds at FL390 are there?  I'm wondering what else you have installed (i.e., REX, AS2012, OPUS, FEX, GEX, etc.).  Some of those programs are really nasty if you have those cloud settings set to 4096 (HD) and you have high settings in the fsx.cfg too.  With any newer technology than DX9, you will find anomalies between the two.  DX10 preview was not developed fully for FSX and that was admitted by the developers/programmers.  It has a lot of bugs, unknown bugs.  In certain circumstances you will see lower fps especially if FSX has to render textures made from older versions of FS.  In other words, it is not a perfect technology but most of the time it works well in FSX/Acceleration.  DX10 Preview is only suppose to give you maybe a 5-10 fps increase according to the developers.  I know if I have a different view in DX10 Preview, fps will be high looking in one direction and very low when looking in another direction.  I can't compare this to DX9 as I haven't used DX9 for a long time and cannot remember but I would suspect that's the same as DX9 is not a perfect technology either.   

 

Fortunately I don't have to worry too much about fps anymore in FSX as I now have the Haswell i7 4770K and the GTX780 with 3GB of memory as long as I keep my fsx settings down.  So far it has provided excellent performance for FSX in DX10 mode.  Hopefully you can find a solution to your problem!

 

Best regards,

Jim

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the respons Jim,

 

I am only using 1024 textures for know until my HD7970 OC arrives. Nice system you have there  :-)

 

I have just reinsstalled the shader 3.2.2. and got rid of the Shader3.0=1 (dx9 related right ?) in fsx.cfg and i will test some more during flights. 

 

Clouds seems to take a much bigger FPS HIT in DX10 than DX9 on my system. Where i had down to 8 FPS in DX10 i was getting 19FPS in DX9.

 

FL390 looking down below btw :-)

 

Michael Moe 

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the respons Jim,

 

I am only using 1024 textures for know until my HD7970 OC arrives. Nice system you have there  :-)

 

I have just reinsstalled the shader 3.2.2. and got rid of the Shader3.0=1 (dx9 related right ?) in fsx.cfg and i will test some more during flights. 

 

Clouds seems to take a much bigger FPS HIT in DX10 than DX9 on my system. Where i had down to 8 FPS in DX10 i was getting 19FPS in DX9.

 

FL390 looking down below btw :-)

 

Michael Moe 

How much RAM do you have? Maybe it's swapping a lot when flying fast.

You could also try other cloud textures and see if it improves. If you are using REX textures, did you check the DXT5 compression?

The FPS-drop shouldn't be that bad, but heavy weather is also 'heavy' on a system. What kind of weather did you have active, major storms?

Share this post


Link to post

How much RAM do you have? Maybe it's swapping a lot when flying fast.

You could also try other cloud textures and see if it improves. If you are using REX textures, did you check the DXT5 compression?

The FPS-drop shouldn't be that bad, but heavy weather is also 'heavy' on a system. What kind of weather did you have active, major storms?

 

 

No this was Active Sky 2012 with default settings and vice versa with REX no HD textures.  - no changing but i did another flight this evening and i cannot believe that i gain my FPS again back up in the upper 20´s by leaving the FANSPEED by system in CCC. The temp was rising to 75c but my system recovered ??????? WHAT the ??

 

My Corsair Proff series 850w might be to small ? hmm will test some more :-)

 

Damn FSX is a still after all these years a mystery

 

Michael Moe

Share this post


Link to post

The Corsair PSU 850KW is what I have in my system since i7 2600K.  It works well.  Unfortunately, trying to replicate your issue is difficult at least for me.  Your GPU temp of 75c does seem to be high.  Properly seated with PCI power cables attached?  Sometimes just shutting down FSX and restarting it will fix a lot of problems but I would also look at any tweaks you placed in the FSX.cfg.  Most create more problems if not properly configured.  Bufferpools settings are the most common cause of issues.  Hope you get it worked out.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
[..]

 

FL390 looking down below btw :-)

 

Michael Moe 

 

By the way, speaking of looking down from above, in spot view where you put your camara right on top of the plane and look straight down on plane and scenery, the FPS drops immensly

For some reason that is a HUGE fps hit for me at least. If  you change the angle of the viewpoint a little bit, then the low fps is gone. The same happens when you put the viewpoint completely down and look straight up. I can't figure out why that is.

So i hope you didn't base your fps on that, lol :)

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks. No it was when i was looking out the window in the ngx.

 

Michael Moe

Share this post


Link to post

Fortunately I don't have to worry too much about fps anymore in FSX as I now have the Haswell i7 4770K and the GTX780 with 3GB of memory as long as I keep my fsx settings down. So far it has provided excellent performance for FSX in DX10 mode. Hopefully you can find a solution to your problem!

 

Best regards,

Jim

Jim, nice system you have. Hey. What CPU clock you at? Also, what cloud density, draw distance, scenery complexity and AG density settings have you settled on as "comfortable"? Do you use AI traffic and road vehicles?

 

I find airport vehicles a major killer! Is it just me?

 

C.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the respons Jim,

 

I am only using 1024 textures for know until my HD7970 OC arrives. Nice system you have there  :-)

 

I have just reinsstalled the shader 3.2.2. and got rid of the Shader3.0=1 (dx9 related right ?) in fsx.cfg and i will test some more during flights. 

 

Clouds seems to take a much bigger FPS HIT in DX10 than DX9 on my system. Where i had down to 8 FPS in DX10 i was getting 19FPS in DX9.

 

FL390 looking down below btw :-)

 

Michael Moe

 

Most people I know stick with 1024 texture clouds to prevent long haul related OOM's and dense overcast stutters when using high AA settings. Personally, I find some of the HD clouds unrealistic looking.

 

C.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm at 4.2GHz.  Getting BSOD's at 4.4 to 4.6 but had 4.6 for a whole day before the 0124 Stop Code BSOD's.  No Autogen as I have MegaSceneryEarth V2 States but do use it if I enable Orbx PNW stuff.  Use AS2012 for weather and have textures set at 2048.  Yesterday I did a flight from FSDT KORD to Taxi2Gate KSTL with AS2012 enabled and got 20-30 fps at Chicago and St Louis and 45-50 fps at cruise.  I'm pleased....

 

Best regards,

Jim

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the respons Jim,

I am only using 1024 textures for know until my HD7970 OC arrives. Nice system you have there :-)

 

I have just reinsstalled the shader 3.2.2. and got rid of the Shader3.0=1 (dx9 related right ?) in fsx.cfg and i will test some more during flights.

 

Clouds seems to take a much bigger FPS HIT in DX10 than DX9 on my system. Where i had down to 8 FPS in DX10 i was getting 19FPS in DX9.

FL390 looking down below btw :-)

 

Michael Moe

All I can offer concerning DX10, ATI and Clouds...

 

Intel i7 2600k @ 4.2, 8GB PC3 1600 RAM, HD7970 3GB

REX 2048 clouds, FSX Default Water @ Low 2.x, Scenery Complexity Very Dense, AG Dense, Max Cloud Density Coverage, 70 miles radius. LOD Radius 4.5

OpusFSX Overcast theme saved from a previous flight.

 

Location: ORBX PNW above Default CYVR.

 

Keeping in mind. If I fly around in bad multi layer weather in the JS41, DX10 or not, there can easily be drops into the 20's. Especially when there is a lot of autogen present and visible.

 

xSkUZ.jpg

VWsoM.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks,

 

Btw  . is there a quick test option setup method in Active Sky 2012 to force overcast and bad weather settings ?  Sometimes you just want to fly in these :-)

 

Michael Moe

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks,

 

Btw . is there a quick test option setup method in Active Sky 2012 to force overcast and bad weather settings ? Sometimes you just want to fly in these :-)

 

Michael Moe

Not sure. I use Opus. Sometimes when I set to real world weather in Opus, I get a sweet looking situation I might want later. The I just save it in Opus and it is saved as a static theme in FSX weather selection menu. :-)

 

Since you are getting a 7970... Just want to tell you. Start with almost no tweaks. I'm running none. Reason is stability in DX10 mode with some of them suffers. Example. Usepools=0. That tweak results in artifacting a and visual corruption. In DX9 it works fine and does increase fps a little. I have not found pools settings yet that work. Not that I see a need mind you. In DX10 mode, tweaks just don't seem to be needed. At least with ATI. All I have is highmemfix and I set wide view aspect to true. Vsync and super sample forced in radeonpro.

 

C.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not sure about the artifacting, Charles, but the occasional flashing that results from BP=0 is cured by running water at 6.  

 

How the GPU responds is dependent upon the processor's ability to push data. If it can overpower the gpu, there will certainly be artifacting, and this is exactly what I experienced using the GTX 580 under a heavy testing load (Vancouver Plus). I was able to prevent this by moving to BP=1, Poolsize=10MB and an RT of .5 MB. After this only road traffic density caused the issue.

 

As an FYI, I just upgraded to the GTX 780, and reset the cfg(s) to BP=0, and this time there is no artifacting.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not sure about the artifacting, Charles, but the occasional flashing that results from BP=0 is cured by running water at 6.

 

How the GPU responds is dependent upon the processor's ability to push data. If it can overpower the gpu, there will certainly be artifacting, and this is exactly what I experienced using the GTX 580 under a heavy testing load (Vancouver Plus). I was able to prevent this by moving to BP=1, Poolsize=10MB and an RT of .5 MB. After this only road traffic density caused the issue.

 

As an FYI, I just upgraded to the GTX 780, and reset the cfg(s) to BP=0, and this time there is no artifacting.

Hmmmm.... I better test more. AMD renders different than Nvidia. Different archetecture so i dont expect the same behavior from one tweak to the next. It works flawless in DX9 though. That said, When I removed the BP=0 from cfg I immediately was cured. But I just remembered that I also removed my affinity mask lines as well. I'll go back and test.

 

Initially, I noticed when using BP=0 my card reports GPU usage of 99% and major artifacting occurs. Interesting test ideas come to mind now. Could be tied to the fact I fly at 40 locked much of the time. When doing that I see higher GPU usage. When limited by cpu, and my fps drop to 30 or less my GPU usuage drops as well in tandem. Like the card is waiting on tythe CPU.

 

C.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes - BP=0 makes the GPU work harder, as it's managing the buffer pool, not the FSX application any more. This frees up a large number of system resources that greatly improves performance and allows, generally a higher frame rate.

The bad part about BP=0, is that there is no "throttle" to control how much data should be sent - only the balance between the system speed and the gpu's speed - and so, if the video card is not fast enough (or it's memory is not large enough) to read, manage and process the very high number of draw calls sent by the cpu for each frame - "Artifacting" - spiking will occur, as that buffered data gets over-written. The result is spiking from the autogen - easily triggered by all sliders to the right in heavy scenery and weather, and then pushing up road traffic, (as I found out!).

The answer is to possibly upgrade the GPU - so that it's relatively faster than the cpu; or:- either lower the frame rate (DX10 is smooth even at 23fps); or:- go back to allowing FSX to manage the buffer pools, with BP=1, and then experimenting with the buffer and reject threshold sizes, and possibly accepting the lower performance.

In any case, whether to use BP=1, and experimenting with pool and RT sizing, or to use BP=0 can be a drawn-out process, with many users, (it seems) just guessing at their settings.

Share this post


Link to post

I have always used BP=0 and happy with it. I read over at flightbeam that lowering water to High 1X might improve performance so this is going for a test. Damn FSDT KLAX looks great at night in DX10 even at TML1024. ORBX WEATHER THEME 5 and i was getting 23fps here with an none over clocked I7-950.Cant wait o push it back to 4200mhz. Still using my 5870 card

 

Michael Moe

23fps in VC NGX BTW. 30-40 fps from the Tower.

Share this post


Link to post

I have always used BP=0 and happy with it. I read over at flightbeam that lowering water to High 1X might improve performance so this is going for a test. Damn FSDT KLAX looks great at night in DX10 even at TML1024. ORBX WEATHER THEME 5 and i was getting 23fps here with an none over clocked I7-950.Cant wait o push it back to 4200mhz. Still using my 5870 card

 

Michael Moe

23fps in VC NGX BTW. 30-40 fps from the Tower.

 

73e1.jpg

 

 

m2qg.jpg

 

 

nicz.jpg

 

 

 

3tmc.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

The answer is to possibly upgrade the GPU - so that it's relatively faster than the cpu; or:- either lower the frame rate (DX10 is smooth even at 23fps); or:- go back to allowing FSX to manage the buffer pools, with BP=1, and then experimenting with the buffer and reject threshold sizes, and possibly accepting the lower performance.

Well. FSX is certainly a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Or something like that. In DX9 my 6950 (GTX560?), could not handle BP=0 without flashing sky and blinking white boxes on the ground. Went to a 7950 and the problem went away. Woo! BP=0 forever! Yup it was smoother ect. Upgraded to 7970 (in FSX more or less between a GTX670 and 680). Still good with BP=0.

 

As soon as I went DX10, if I use BP=0, I get spikes in the scenery sticking out of the ground. Now the truth is, I have traffic set to medium high and clouds at max density. These issues are only if I fly HD planes in overcast over a dense population and it takes a few minutes to start manifesting. Same with a Bojote built cfg. It could be that I fly with unlimited fps but controlled externally. I could try locking 30 internally. Maybe that's the thing. If so I won't bother. Its just too smooth at 40+ to go back.

 

I'm not going worry though. My best and smoothest and most stable experience is with no tweaks in DX10 for whatever reason. It just seems to be fine. So far anyway.

 

C.

Share this post


Link to post
As soon as I went DX10, if I use BP=0, I get spikes in the scenery sticking out of the ground.

Yup - because the gpu (in my case - the GTX580) has now become the bottleneck, as it's now using dedicated buffers, using it's own memory for graphics processing, the system's processor is relived of that buffering, and, because of the different DX10 architecture, the cpu now has a considerable (effective) increase in it's own memory size - (better performance) hence the need (with an already "fast" cpu) to "throttle" that cpu by limiting the frame rate, or reducing whatever excessive graphic load is causing the spiking - in my case - road traffic. (The flashing with BP=0 can usually be relieved by setting water to 6 in the config). 

 

Or we can fix it all by going to a high(er!)-end gpu......  :lol: 

Share this post


Link to post

Yup - because the gpu (in my case - the GTX580) has now become the bottleneck, as it's now using dedicated buffers, using it's own memory for graphics processing, the system's processor is relived of that buffering, and, because of the different DX10 architecture, the cpu now has a considerable (effective) increase in it's own memory size - (better performance) hence the need (with an already "fast" cpu) to "throttle" that cpu by limiting the frame rate, or reducing whatever excessive graphic load is causing the spiking - in my case - road traffic. (The flashing with BP=0 can usually be relieved by setting water to 6 in the config). 

 

Or we can fix it all by going to a high(er!)-end gpu......  :lol: 

 

 

 

Hi Poul

 

Does this mean theoretically that the CPU in DX10 has transfered tasks to the GPU so when i upgrade from ATI5870 to 7970 i could see an improvement based on this Task movement ?

 

I do not se these artifacts with the HD5870 in DX10 btw. 

 

Thanks

Michael Moe

Share this post


Link to post

Most people experience a better performance in DX10 because of this, yes.

But if you don't have artifacts with your current card in DX10 with bp=0, i'm not sure what you expect. Because then it wouldn't matter and the CPU is your bottleneck right now.

 

You can check your CPU and GPU with monitoring software to see which is being used 100%, probably your CPU.

Share this post


Link to post

Mark is correct, Michael.

Share this post


Link to post