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jimmy64

Maybe PMDG's choice can solve a problem.

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So we know the T7 won't work, but, that may not be so bad. Let me explain, Both FSX and P3D have a problem when too many large programs are used during flight, the "out of memory" issue. Why not enjoy all your add-ons, just not at the same time, and without adding and deleting scenery for each flight. For commercial flying, I will use FSX, PMDG's aircraft and a few add-on airports, without ORBX, photoscenery and other memory hogs. Most of the flight is spent in the cockpit anyway. Then for GA aircraft, like the new A2A C172, I'll use P3D and ORBX add-ons and similar products in an environment where we do look around quite a bit. I don't wish to do myriad tweaks on FSX just to stretch a few more megabytes of memory out of it, and with slower aircraft flying shorter routes in P3D, the OOM's shouldn't be an issue on that platform. We don't have 1 perfect sim, but we can effectively use all of the great products that have been developed for them. REX should be OK on both.

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The 777 works just fine.

What are you talking about?

He means in prepar3d

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Are you saying that you have PMDG's 777 working in P3D? Another poster and a responder stated specifically that it did not work on their P3D install, cited a message about the inconvenience and crashed the program.

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Ooms are user error not the sim's.

OOM's are a limitation of the 32 bit program"s 4GB ceiling and have been written about exhaustively.

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I mean ooms are caused by the user loading everything ever made for fsx(exagerration of course) at maximum settings and blaming the PMDG 777. Or using a 32 bit OS so vas isn't really 4gb. Or maybe some other system inconsistency that mismanages memory usage. Something I don't know. But I don't get oom errors and am conservative with settings. This is a flight simulator, not a cloud or traffic simulator. If you want to crank up cloud, lod, autogen, or traffic, ie eye candy don't do it in highly realistic large vas footprint airliners. Compromise; life is full of it. Until we have a 64 bit dx11 sim this is our reality.

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To the OP, I agree - why not have both and use each one for the proper add-ons?

 

Of course we will have to be careful with some installers already aware of both versions!

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Compromise,yes! Use the right tool for the job. I'm glad you guys get it. Initially I tried to migrate to P3D exclusively and was guilty of wanting everything running @ max on one platform. Madness.

I will thoroughly enjoy the T7 on FSX where 95% of the time, I will be in the cockpit. I will also enjoy FTX Global, ORBX sceneries and airports, while using great GA aircraft in P3D.

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I got to say that I had a very emotional initial reaction!

 

How dare they! LM,PMDG,& Tom, hereafter known as "TBT" (The Big Three)...how dare they!

 

How dare PMDG purposely break P3d with the T7???

 

...simple... As Tom said, EULAS are sacrosanct.... And because they can...and perhaps legally, should(I can't f**king believe you said that Chas)

 

Welllll... I decided that there's no sense in beating my head against a brick Wall, "TBT", so I'll simply say yes, I understand there are EULA(s), and yes I understand why, and yes I understand that Tom Owns Avsim, and yes I've been kicked by him before because there is no freedom of speech here.

 

...sooo, do I leave(again), or work within the existing constraints and exhibit(for me) an extra-ordinary modicum of diplomacy?

 

For now, I'll choose the latter...cause the Avsim members and their support are too important to me.

 

That said, I will simply say that P3d is my FS OF CHOICE, but, until LM or PMDG changes their EULA, I WANT THE BEST... And that seems to mean:

 

1. I want the PMDG T3 and;

2. I need to re-install FSX to do that, and;

3. I want to run P3d when not flying PMDG's products.

 

Givens:

I have the NGX and about 160GB OF P3d/FSX ADDONS.

 

I also have the Estonia migration tool.

 

Should we start a new thead "Flying P3d & RETRO-fitting FSX to work with PMDG PRODUCTS"?

 

Mission: What common files/ procedures can we implement/share between FSX and P3d to minimize resources such as disk space,memory and cost, thus optimizing the FSX-PMDG/P3d-everything else, experience?

 

 

...thoughts?

 

Regards,

Chas

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I defined different profiles in FSX ("GA profile", "airliner profile", ...), so I just switch profiles, not sims.

 

And (Tom's) AVSIM is pretty democratic, the "fine print" simply states you can't demand democracy (like in "freedom of speech") here.

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I defined different profiles in FSX ("GA profile", "airliner profile", ...), so I just switch profiles, not sims.

 

 

Well excuuuuuuuusemeeeeee....arrow thru the head as well....I thought this was the prepar3d forum....

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Well excuuuuuuuusemeeeeee....arrow thru the head as well....I thought this was the prepar3d forum....

 

 

One of us needs to read the OP again ...

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Let me explain, Both FSX and P3D have a problem when too many large programs are used during flight, the "out of memory" issue.

 

Alright, so what's the difference of having 100 addons split to two sims against 100 addons in one sim activated as needed?

Buuuut.... if you suggest FSX for commercial and P3D for GA, you might be right, for the time being... we still don't know what V2 will bring.

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V2-A new LM EULA Stating that;

 

In recognition for the contributions made to Prepar3d by the flight Sim community, both commercial and freeware, and;

 

Acknowledgement of the fact that the very act of using Prepar3d, inately involves a perpetual requirement for learning;

 

That it's very use causes increase in flying skills, instrument implementation education, flight, navigation and aerodynamic concepts, the embodyment of education and;

 

ALL users, casual to Virtual Airline captains and First Officers, are defacto perpetual students of aviation, therefore;

 

Lockheed Martin here-by decides that, by using Prepar3d, smile creating education and Entertainment are inextricably bound.

 

It is there-fore the encumbent upon Lockheed-Martin to extend its EULA to include its use for Edu-tainment purposes.

 

...I dreamt last night...

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I think V2 will come with a new EULA

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I think V2 will come with a new EULA

 

I think you're right :wink:

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I think assuming for a different EULA for Version 2.0 is wishful thinking at best. I am hopeful but I think LM has given us all they can based upon their contract with microsoft. And I've seen nothing in any forum indicating LMs desire to change that. We are just not a significant part of their customer base. We just get to share in the enjoyment of a great piece of software. Wish it were different but for now those are the facts.

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I think LM has given us all they can based upon their contract with microsoft.

I may be wrong and I have just forgotten, but is this part part of the contract confirmed somewhere? This contractual restriction seems to pop up in P3D and EULA discussions every now and then to me this seems just another assumption. I don't remember seeing anyone from LM confirming this and thus this may be completely false. I'm not saying there isn't a restriction, because I don't know about it and there definitely may be something which prohibits LM to compete within consumer entertainment market with ESP licensed software, but I wouldn't be surprised at alll if this is purely just a choice from the LM side and MS has nothing to say to it. After all, it is completely natural when you look at where the company's market is and I wouldn't be surprised at all that they aren't pushing it for consumers even without any contractual restrictions. I know bunch of companies who don't sell their products to consumers, only for other businesses or organizations and at most offer some very limited usage for home use at most, so what is the big deal here? Why there needs to be some contractual restriction at all? And why should it matter why it is not aimed at consumer entertainment?

 

My post is by no means directed to the quoted post in the sense, more in general to this subject that pops up every now and then.After allm this is just one example where some people in the sim community make assumptions regarding the contract without any real knowledge what is written in it and then transform those assumptions to another ones to find some imagined reasons behind the decisions of LM, MS or some other company without any actual facts. After that, some of these assumptions just become truths which are poked every now and then and many seem to hold those either as a fact or then understand them how they personally want to see them. In the end, only thing that matters is the agreement with the purchaser and copyright owner, in the case of P3D LM. What is between MS and LM, is completely between those companies. World is full of applications which are or include licensed technology and nobody seems to discuss those anywhere (unless it is perhaps a news relating to some interesting patent infringement battle between corporations etc). Why? Because it shouldn't concern the purchaser in any way. Even the position of these EULAs and enforcement of them in the court of law differs between countries, so making some generalisations and assumptions of the whole is really quite useless. But EULAs alltogether are another story...

 

My point just is that there doesn't need to be anything complicated why LM is not marketing P3D for entertainment. Or there doesn't need to be any other reason behind PMDG's reason other than the protecting their business with their professional customers and thus keeping those segments strictly separated. Companies make decisions which they think are best for them and their business whether it is a deal concerning licensing or aiming for different markets. No more, no less :lol:

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I am not going to fight this fight...it is obvious what I and many others want...PMDG on Prepar3d......

 

Both have expressed their stances and their explanations have been exhaustively examined here and elsewhere ...if you are not absolutely convinced as to the mutual exclusion-ism of the two entities, P3d and PMDG, do your homework.

 

To get the T7 on P3d, it is going to take either a EULA BREAKING HACK, or a mutually INCLUSIVE agreement by both parties....period.

 

I hate it, but that is the state of affairs, and the current END OF STORY.

 

...sob

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I am not certain but I believe I read a post from LM that there was a contract restriction with microsoft. I'm not gonna waste my time looking for it as this topic has been exhausted and it would take too long to find it. Without actually seeing the contract I just am assuming what has been discussed is true. But a little common sense would indicate that if they could release it for entertainment use they would have done so from the beginning.

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So for now it's two sim's for many of us to get what we want, it is, what it is. I started this thread in an effort to find a silver lining because I'm just tired of being disappointed. Life is too short. I would like to start a new thread, perhaps in a different area, to ask members to load the T7 in FSX, along with two FSDT or similar airports (3-6 hours apart) and an REX product, then fly between them at max settings. No other products need be loaded, default textures only, no ORBX close by, no Manhattan X, and no photoscenery. If this can be done without an OOM, then I'm certainly going back to FSX for PMDG flights.  

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I've thrown in the towel on P3D. It's so clear that it isn't ever going to be the solution we all hoped for, i.e. the clean up of all the FSX bugs that finally delivers the software we all thought we were buying with FSX. Well of course it will/does have the necessary refinement, but what good is it if developers are hell bent on making sure their software won't work in it.

 

PMDG is one of the main reasons I'm in this hobby. If their stuff isn't every going on P3D then I don't want to know. I have no quibble with them - they have very good reasons for their stance.

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I've thrown in the towel on P3D. It's so clear that it isn't ever going to be the solution we all hoped for, i.e. the clean up of all the FSX bugs that finally delivers the software we all thought we were buying with FSX. Well of course it will/does have the necessary refinement, but what good is it if developers are hell bent on making sure their software won't work in it.

 

PMDG is one of the main reasons I'm in this hobby. If their stuff isn't every going on P3D then I don't want to know. I have no quibble with them - they have very good reasons for their stance.

I'm not throwing in the towel by any means, if you're in this solely for commercial flying then you may be right. There are, however, great new GA aircraft. Look at the A2A C172! I'm going to just love flying that in P3D with FTX Global and ORBX areas and airports. Throw in REX Essential and OPUS for weather and I'm not sure you can have a more complete flying experience. It would not be the same in FSX. I have never had an OOM in P3D with GA aircraft no matter what I have loaded. I also plan to use Flight 1's G1000 student trainer on a second screen with my Carenado T182T.

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I'd like to run both P3D and FSX side by side for the reasons you mention, but that's likely to lead to a huge can of worms.

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