Informed Graphics Card Decision

[RWFeldman 159]

Rob. Just wait till the Amazon Drones start delivering your new computer parts within hours or minutes!!

[chatman 29]

Don't want to start another thread but I wonder why nobody ever mentionned ATI cards? The new 290's should surpass a GTX780 according to benchmarls I found!

Noise and power consumption are an issue but at least the former should get better with custom card designs.

 

Maybe anybody upgraded to an ATI and could throw some light on how they perform with Prepar3D (or X-Plane 10)

 

I'm actually owning a GTX 570 and am NVdia biased but in the end it's a question of value for bucks and ATI is in front here atm

 

Thanks a lot!

[waleed 26]

Thanks for all the information, but overload is upon me right now.

 

Had to get a new system built as my 2700k days came to an abrupt end on Christmas Day lol.

Santa did not know where I lived (Dubai), so the MOBO slayer showed up instead.

 

I was planing a new system for Jan./Feb., but ended up building a partial one now, as I have to use my Asus 680 2gb(hate the sucker), and I have to find a way to order 2400-16gb (2sticks)at CL9.

 

I personally had nothing but satisfaction with NewEgg, but as I am not stateside, it is difficult.

Also, when I contact vendors locally, I get the yes yes answer which literally translates into- No Idea, and not bothered to check for you so please stop calling lol.

 

Anyway, got a 4770K setup coming along, and was looking at an 780ti (factory oc as I am lost in these matters), with the hope of getting a second one for SLI down the road.

 

If price is acceptable, would it be worth it?

FSX for now (once I get the system up and running), and looking into P3D for the future, which may have use of the SLI function.

 

I ask because I am considering SLI mainly for non FS type games, but may stick with one card after all is said and done.

 

Thanks for any advice, and sorry for the LOOONG post.

[Robert McDonald 167]

Regardless of what 'speed' video card you buy, you should consider buying one with the most VRAM on-card as possible.  4GB as minimum, 6GB if money is not an object (that would be the GTX Titan).

 

The on-card VRAM is important as you try to go to higher resolutions (above 1080p), or if you are going to attempt to run more than 1 monitor off the card.  If you were to at some point move to X-Plane, you would also be very-well rewarded by HIGH VRAM on your graphics card.  For example, msi makes a OC (Overclocked) Gamer 770 4GB (option) VRAM card that works VERY well in XPlane.  X-Plane is designed to use all the VRAM you have available, thus 4GB is FAR superior to 2GB and even a lot better than 3GB.

 

The GTX Titan has 6GB of VRAM on it, but if I'm not wrong, is the prior-generation Keppler GPU (the 6-series).  Thus far, the Titan handles EVERYTHING I've thrown at it, without breaking a sweat.

 

You mentioned SLI.  Be aware that FSX does NOT benefit -at all- from SLI, nor does it benefit from high amounts of VRAM.  Other games WILL (as I mentioned XPlane).

 

Truth be known, SLI itself is somewhat misleading.  Yes, you are building a large channel for Video signal, but in SLI, a pair of 2GB Vram cards only means 2GB 'max textures'- NOT 4!!

 

Each card is limited by the VRAM that is on that distinct card.  It is NOT cumulative.  In addition, more video cards means more HEAT and also requires MORE POWER in the Power Supply.

 

The better move (for me) was to build 3 PCs for XPlane, and each PC renders 1/3 of the total video area on its own monitor.  You can see this in action on my YouTube channel (click Video link at bottom of my signature bar).

 

When you run SLI, other things become bottlenecks, most notably data throughput, stuttering (induced by SLI itself), and the big one- CPU overload.  It stands to reason:  ONE CPU is never going to be as capable of rendering a LARGE area as THREE CPUS and THREE GPUS, each rendering 1/3 of the total real viewing area.  When you try to connect THREE monitors to ONE video card, then drag gauges off onto one, and say, split the view out the airplane between the other two, you suffer a BIG TIME frames hit.  Why?  The video card must perform TRIPLE the work in the same amount of time.  Plus, all of the calculations necessary to 'draw' all the action on all three displays must be done on just ONE processor (the CPU).  So SLI isn't going to help.  If you're only ever going to run just ONE monitor, then SLI is OK.  The moment you want to use 2 or more... you're better off splitting the job up among more PCs.  This of course only works if your GAME SUPPORTS IT.  I don't believe FSX does, but XPlane 10.2 (and higher) surely does.

 

Without ruffling any feathers, keep in mind that X-Plane 10.2 (and higher) can fly in 64-bits.  AFAIK, P3D v2, while 'better' than FSX in some ways, remains a 32-bit program.  As such all the SYSTEM RAM above 4GB is irrelevant and wasted.  64-bits removes that limitation. I am only going into detail for your long-range planning purposes.  If you enjoy FSX and love how it flies, you can clearly remain with it.  There are many things I myself love about FSX, but I can't give up the 180 degree field of view and superior frames that are my XPX experience today.

 

The truth is, rendering all the on-screen eye candy in flight simulation (or other games) is a huge task.  Calculating all the trapezoids, painting them with textures and then laying the final 'skin' on top of it all, plus clouds, wind, shadows, rain/snow, and of course all of this moving in real time while your airplane is also being rendered...

 

Even a muscular top-end PC can be brought down to sub 20 frames per second!  I know, I have been there in FSX.

 

Same PC with the 2 wing PCS and ripped out the GTX690 for the GTX Titan, switched from FSX to XP10- added glass cockpit software (Sim-Avionics) on yet another separate PC (all-in-one HP Rove), you can see the difference with your own eyes on YouTube.

 

If you insist on going the SLI route in future, my suggestion would be the 4GB 770s as opposed to the 780.  AFAIK, the 780 isn't available with 4GB Vram.  If it IS, then by all means, the 780.

 

Cheers.

[waleed 26]

Ok Robert, thanks for all the info.

 

I am aware that SLI and FSX are a no go, and somewhat understand the 2b, 3gb, 4gb reasoning and all.

 

I also play COD online, so i figure that is where the SLI may come in handy, even though I am never gonna be "good" as the young lings who always have me on a stake lol.

 

The Titan is not a stretch for me at this moment, but I kind of like the "lite" reviews of the 780ti, and the Gainward model looks fantastic.

 

I am an FSXer for now, and am looking at P3D down the road, and may also look into XP, and am not into the x is better than y as each has merits, and deficits.

 

Never tried more than one monitor, but have a second pc for Aivalsoft (purchase as soon as my system is done), and PFPX, and whatever I can instal on it down the road to split the workload.

I am however looking at getting some hardware from Flight Deck Solutions, but have not decided on what and how much.

 

Right now, you got me looking into an 770 along with the 780, so I guess I have to check out some reviews, though once they get techno on me I fall into snooze mode lol.

[waleed 26]

Disregard the SLI configuration, as my Maximus Vi will not fit two comfortably.

Not a bad thing, but puts the 780ti in the lead.

[turnandbank 243]

I'm also struggling with the decision between a 770 4gb or a 780 3gb for my long overdue new build which will be based on the 4470K, likely with a mild OC -- perhaps 4.2 to 4.3 GHZ -- I'll see when the time comes.  Word Not Allowed did an interesting comparison on his blog, which Avsim won't let me link to, where he compares a 780 Titan to a 580 and 680.  Since a 770 should, at least in theory, only slightly outperform the 680 he used in the tests, it is interesting to note that the 780 Titan considerably outperformed the 680 in both FSX and in Prepar3d 2.0 in certain situations, especially with heavy overcast and cloud layers.

 

Nick N also seems to strongly recommend the 780 over the 770 in his FSX 'bible', especially if running a Haswell CPU at 4.2 GHZ or higher, otherwise he indicates the the video card will be a bottleneck.  

 

While FSX is my main sim, I do dabble a bit with Xplane-10 and, from what I have read, I am quite convinced that for it the 770 with 4GB of ram would almost certainly be better than the 780 with 3GB on that platform.  This also seems to be an ongoing debate when it comes to Prepar3d 2.0, however the tests done by Word Not Allowed on his blog would suggest that the faster 780 GPU would also be the better choice there as well, although he was testing with a Titan which while obviously the ideal choice is beyond what I am prepared to spend on a GPU.

 

Anyway enough babbling; just wanted to share some of what I've been pondering and look forward to anyone elses thoughts.  It would be especially nice to hear from anyone that has had experience with both of these cards. 

[Robert McDonald 167]

I owned an EVGA GTX690 (dual processor 2gb per GPU), currently own 1 - GTX Titan (with 6GB Vram) and 2-msi OC Gamer 770s with 4GB on each card.  Each of the 3 video cards is installed in its own PC.

 

Again, if you are thinking long-term, I STRONGLY urge you to get as much VRAM on your gaming card as you can afford, it's a BEAR to find out later you 'shoulda got more'.  Used video cards are hard to sell at anything close to what you spent buying them.

 

The Titan has 6GB of VRAM, but since my other 2 wing pcs have 4GB VRAM, my XPlane experience is somewhat locked to 4GB max.  In the real world, in super-heavy environment with a lot of details and weather, the 4GB cards will sometimes 'overload', whilst the titan keeps plugging away.

 

So, in a perfect world, I would own 3 Titans.  That's not happening for me though.  I would say in candor that 4GB is the "sweet spot" in terms of cost/benefits.  Nick N and Word Not Allowed both have done a LOT of research and I would never argue with any of their recommendations - BUT, If you are thinking of X-Plane, and I highly recommend you work towards it - you will NEVER be sorry with the max VRAM, 4 is a LOT better than 3, and 3 is a LOT better than 2.  

 

My suggestion would be go with the Overclocked MSi Gamer 4GB 770s.  You'll save enough not buying the Titan to actually be able to buy an i5 happy meal from Sam's (I like the DELL 8700), to run PFPX and AivlaSoft's EFB on.  You definitely do NOT want to run those on your main FSX PC!

 

If you can buy from Amazon (dunno if they "do" Canada), you can have the added benefit of a 30-day return window on your graphics cards.  CAUTION:  When ordering from Amazon.com (for PC parts), it's highly recommended to be sure the seller of your item is AMAZON and NOT one of their trusted partners.  The 3rd party peeps are NOT as user-friendly if you decide you want to return an electronic (PC) purchase, including video cards!  EVGA is notorious for 'exchange only' even when purchased from Amazon.

 

I have had tremendous success with MSi 'twin frozr' cooling pipes and dual-fan high-end video cards.  The OC model is clocked at over 1GHz right out of the factory, you don't have to worry about damaging it if your merely run it right out of the box at the 1 gig speed.  Note, this card requires more than a 'stock' OEM power supply.  I bought 750 watt Corsair semi-modular psus and love them.  The happy-meal with the upgraded PSU and the OC 770 4GB msi video are screamers, love them dearly.  The PC (no monitor) was about $699, the psu about $80 and the video card I'm talking about roughly $385 after $15 mfr rebate from Amazon.  PCs came from Sams (Dell XPS 8500s, now being marketed as XPS 8700s.  The STOCK video card was a GTX620, the lowest end discrete video card with only 1GB of ram.  Popped that out in lieu of the 770s).

 

I will recommend the TITAN to those who can afford it.  It's just a BEAST.  The added 2GB over the 4GB models I own DOES make a difference under extreme graphics conditions IN X-PLANE 10. Since I no longer fly FSX, I can't really say.  A big part of me wishes I'd bought 2 more Titans.  But for the price difference, I settled for the DELL XPS i5 8500s PLUS the 770 4GB card at about what just one extra Titan would cost me.  Honestly, I'm STUNNED that the 780 only has 3GB VRAM. 

 

To me, your choice is the 4GB OC 770  -or- The GTX Titan. I would NEVER buy an expensive video card with below 4GB Vram, too limiting.  Regardless of benchmarks, CUDA cores or anything else.  Being able to push all the onscreen candy in the VRAM directly is golden.  And even notwithstanding that, if you're thinking BENQ monitor at more than 1080p horizontal resolution, the TITAN becomes EXTREMELY compelling.

 

The GTX690 was a huge frustration and large disappointment.  The Titan blows the 690 away in FSX -or- XPlane.  i never jumped for P3D V2.  I am firmly in the 64-bit long-range camp, which puts me in the X-Plane hangar.  Click on the Flight Videos link lower left of my signature graphics area, you can see the triple screen 180 degree field of view in XPlane 10 (64-bit).  "a picture says a thousand words..."

[Christopher Low 5,359]

I am currently suffering from what I would call "hard" stutters at large airports with lots of AI planes around. These "hard" stutters occur roughly once per second, but the framerates in between these are fine. Testing has revealed that these stutters are caused by the AI planes themselves (since reducing the scenery and autogen detail does not seem to make any difference whatsoever).

 

I am guessing that my current 1GB GeForce GTX 560Ti graphics card is struggling to render all of the extra textures and detail on the AI planes. That being the case, I was wondering if upgrading to a 2GB GTX 760 would reduce this effect in FSX? I am not expecting framerate improvements (I don't particularly need them), but I have seen posts from Bojote that suggest upgrading from 1GB VRAM to 2GB (and using the BP=0 tweak) would reduce stuttering.

 

Is this correct?

[Christopher Low 5,359]

Can anyone confirm or refute this?

[whoispankaj 51]

I built a new computer yesterday using i7-4770k, overclocked to 4.3 ghz with nvidia 770. 4 gb , and 8 gob dram..it runs fsx butter smooth with framerate locked at 30

I was also confused if I should go with 780 ti 3gb.. But I think I am happy now

[sleightflight 17]

I'm running an I7 3770K clocked at 4.5 ghz, and I used to run an msi 6970, I listened the the nvidia hype and bought an evga 780 classified, as far as I can tell the amd card produced a better image and was just as stuttery as the the 780 is, I haven't tried flying in a lot of weather yet though to see how it handles that, but for fair weather flying the 6970 was better in my opinion.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[Christopher Low 5,359]

Can someone please answer my question regarding "hard" stutters in FSX? I currently have a 1GB GTX 560Ti, but I am getting "one big stutter per second" problems at large airports with lots of AI planes. What I want to know is.....will upgrading from 1GB to 2GB VRAM improve the situation for me? After extensive testing, it seems that the stutters are related to my Ultimate Traffic 2 AI planes (because I can reduce the scenery complexity and autogen density to zero, and the stutters are still there). I am wondering/hoping that an upgrade to 2GB VRAM would reduce the stuttering to an acceptable level.

 

Any advice greatly appreciated.