Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

JesC

Informed Graphics Card Decision

Recommended Posts

Hello Folks.

 

Well, the P3D v2 release has prompted many a conversation about video/graphics cards. Like many, I would like to upgrade in preparation for a potential move to P3D but also to possibly benefit my FSX performance in the meantime. I would like to make an informed decision but frankly I don't think I am a very well informed  buyer at this point.

I have carefully followed many of the conversations/ threads but I am still  confused some; especially with all of the abbreviations and acronyms. (Still not sure which is the "VRAM" spec)

I am comparing the following choices and would very much appreciate your honest and  informed advice along with your clarifications, discussions, and experiences.

                                             GTX 770                GTX 780             GTX 780TI

Video Memory                    4GB                       3GB                     3GB

Stream Processors           1536                      2304                    2880

Core Clock                         1150 Mhz               863 MHz              980 MHz

Memory Clock                    7010 Mhz              6000 MHz           7000 Mhz

Memory Bandwidth           224.32 GB/sec      288.4 GB/sec     336 GB/sec

Price (approximate)             $480                     $650                   $720

 

 

Looking forward to your input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like you might have left out the 770 family.  Below is a link to newegg for the 770's that they have, which contain 4gb if VRAM (video memory).  By the way, the 770's have 1538 Stream Processors, also known as Cuda Cores.  I believe the 760's have 1152 and not 1536 like is stated above in your post.  I also included a link for the 760's. 

 

770's 4GB

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600007787&IsNodeId=1&Description=gforce%20gtx%20770&name=4GB&Order=BESTMATCH

 

760's 4GB

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600007787&IsNodeId=1&Description=gforce%20gtx%20760&name=4GB&Order=BESTMATCH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like you might have left out the 770 family.  Below is a link to newegg for the 770's that they have, which contain 4gb if VRAM (video memory).  By the way, the 770's have 1538 Stream Processors, also known as Cuda Cores.  I believe the 760's have 1152 and not 1536 like is stated above in your post.  I also included a link for the 760's. 

 

Thanks for your input and the links and for pointing out the discrepancy. The 760 in my table is an error and should actually be a 770. (Good indication of my confusion at this point)

 

I just see a lot of people choosing one of the 780's over the 770 and I don't yet understand the reasons. Hoping someone can clarify the importance of the differences in the specifications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following a bit of research and feedback from other guys on the forum I eventually opted for the 770 4Gb card. A saving of £100 over the 780 and I wasn't convinced that a 780 would have been that much of an upgrade over the 770. I may be wrong, and I'm sure the parents of 780s will say so, but I suspect some will be buying the 780 simply because it has a bigger number!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following a bit of research and feedback from other guys on the forum I eventually opted for the 770 4Gb card. A saving of £100 over the 780 and I wasn't convinced that a 780 would have been that much of an upgrade over the 770. I may be wrong, and I'm sure the parents of 780s will say so, but I suspect some will be buying the 780 simply because it has a bigger number!

 

 

Thanks for the feedback, Howard. I have been following your posts on the subject with great interest and my thoughts have closely paralleled yours. I know the community's general comments have been that "vram" is critical to P3D. But, after a good deal of searching and reading I am still unclear which of the manufacturers above quoted specifications refers to vram. Maybe if I can get a definitive answer to that it will help advance my decision.

 

I am really hoping some of the 780/780TI users could provide their input as I would really like to understand the reasoning before making my decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Video memory is the same things as VRAM.

 

Thanks, Mike. I finally got it through my thick head that you had indeed already answered that question in your first post and was about to say so. Thanks for patiently pointing that out... twice.

 

Of course, this just makes me even more puzzled by the frequency of the 780/780ti recommendations. Would still love to get someone's explanation on that. I just know there must be another viewpoint well worth considering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, after kicking this around and with your help and input I have ordered the EVGA GTX 770 with ACX cooler and 4GB memory for $430.00 from TigerD.

 

Spec's:

Video Memory                    4GB
Stream Processors           1536
Core Clock                         1111 Mhz
Memory Clock                    7010 Mhz
Memory Bandwidth           224.32 GB/sec

 

My sincere thanks to you both for your help as well as the many others who have participated in like discussions in numerous threads and forums here at Avsim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesse - I think that is a very solid choice.  Please let us know how things work out with that card.  I will likely be purchasing a 770/4gb myself.

 

Howard - I don't know if you have installed P3D on your system, but if you have, I would love to hear of how it performs.  Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesse - I think that is a very solid choice.  Please let us know how things work out with that card.  I will likely be purchasing a 770/4gb myself.

 

Howard - I don't know if you have installed P3D on your system, but if you have, I would love to hear of how it performs.  Thanks.

 

Hi Mike, sure, P3D is sitting on my drive and I'm like a shy teenager at a prom wanting to ask the dolly girl in the corner for a dance, but I'm afraid I'll be rejected and disappointed so I sit here dreaming about how it could be :blush: I have to say, reading all the negatives surrounding the release, I keep asking myself if I want all the hassle. Maybe this weekend I'll install her and see how she runs :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, after kicking this around and with your help and input I have ordered the EVGA GTX 770 with ACX cooler and 4GB memory for $430.00 from TigerD.

 

Spec's:

 

Video Memory                    4GB

Stream Processors           1536

Core Clock                         1111 Mhz

Memory Clock                    7010 Mhz

Memory Bandwidth           224.32 GB/sec

 

My sincere thanks to you both for your help as well as the many others who have participated in like discussions in numerous threads and forums here at Avsim.

 

Great choice- the 4GB of VRAM is VERY important in the long scheme of things.  Whether you 'stay' with P3D or move over to X-Plane or remain firmly in FSX, you will never be sorry to have that extra on-card memory.  In X-Plane, the simulator can use ALL the VRAM you have available, to render textures.  Hint:  Leave a bit of unused VRAM so new scenery can be swapped into the VRAM buffer prior to being needed "on screen".  For example, although I have 4GB VRAM on the wingman pc's, I only preload them with about 2GB of scenery.  Frames rates are INSANELY HIGH.  One of my videos demos the frames rates of the 770 4gb card.  It has the word Frames in the title.

 

I opted for a pair of 4GB Msi Gamer OC Twin-Frozr 770's for my triple screen setup, the centerpiece card is the GTX 6GB Titan (long story, got it under warranty for a DOA GTX690 courtesy of EVGA).

 

EVGA is a good company, located in California.  STRONGLY recommend you purchase their lifetime warranty option if you can.  Money well spent, video cards are notoriously 'touchy'.

 

Take a look at my videos (click on the link below my signature bar).  You will see what's 'possible' with 5 PC's and XPlane 10, with triple monitors and glass cockpit.  Maybe not your cup o' tea, but I can honestly say it's a game-changer, and I didn't have to part with 15k for a JetMax from FlightDeck Solutions.  Their CDU is spot-on right out of the 737.  Sim-Avionics software drives the glass cockpit, and the CDU.

 

Hi Mike, sure, P3D is sitting on my drive and I'm like a shy teenager at a prom wanting to ask the dolly girl in the corner for a dance, but I'm afraid I'll be rejected and disappointed so I sit here dreaming about how it could be :blush: I have to say, reading all the negatives surrounding the release, I keep asking myself if I want all the hassle. Maybe this weekend I'll install her and see how she runs :wink:

 

Good luck, Howard!  I went back to X-Plane.  The triple monitors sucked me in.  The frames and performance are astounding.  What you're looking for, methinks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


P3D is sitting on my drive and I'm like a shy teenager at a prom wanting to ask the dolly girl in the corner for a dance, but I'm afraid I'll be rejected and disappointed so I sit here dreaming about how it could be

Sounds like you need a wingman.  Go ahead... ask her to dance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jesse, I edited your first post to correct the error you pointed out. Just part of AVSIM's Gold Star Customer Service... B)

 

I've been dithering around between an EVGA GTX770 OC versus EVGA GTX780Ti myself this past week. Having just had to drop $1,100 to help pay my dentist's avgas bill, I have had to scale back my "wants" to match my "cans..."

 

Thanks to this thread, I've just ordered the same card from Tiger Direct too... Thankfully, I already have a brand new 750watt PSU I can drop in to replace my current 500watt PSU while the case is opened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a view that the Titan is just not worth it compared to the 780?  As with many it seems, I too am in the market for a new card.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you made a good choice. I am a 780 owner and like it but think the 770 is a fine card indeed! And saves you some money.

 

My only unfortunate indecent to reflect on your purchase is Tigerdirect. And normally would keep my mouth shut except I have spent all morning fighting with them.

 

Placed an order 2 weeks ago and still has not shipped but they refuse to cancel the order and refund my money, I finally had to notify Visa to take action.

 

But I am sure mine is an isolated instance. But will not do business with them again. Might I suggest Newegg my friend for future purchases. They have always been very fast and handle returns like a dream.

 

And Howard- I am a 780 but would never go against your opinions my friend - we go too far back from the old Orbx forum days. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've actually ordered from both Newegg and Tiger Direct. One nice thing about shopping online with Tiger Direct is that should there be a problem, I can carry it straight over to Orland Park's Tiger Direct outlet store and exchange it immediately. :Whistle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After three hours discussing my options (or lack of) with Tiger Direct this morning it is probably best there was not a TD store near by.....hehe...I might have gone all postal. Kidding I always stay calm and polite but they were pushing me close.

 

I ordered the exact same product from a different vendor on Black Friday (a week post TD) and had it n three days. Odd. Unfortunately it was my first order with TD and my last.

 

But like I say it must be an isolated instance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm another soon-to-be owner of a GTX770 4GB. Mine is on its way from NewEgg, and will be here tomorrow. It's replacing a GTX660Ti 2GB, which has been a good card for FSX, but which has hit the VRAM "wall" a couple of times in my new P3DV2 installation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think for the money, the OC 770 with 4GB is 'the call' for XP10 (and possibly Prepar3D).  It's less than $400 after rebate, and that's a lot more palatable than the Titan.  Yes, it would be 'ideal' to have 3 titans, but $3000 for 3 video cards is nudging the 'nutty' button just a tad.

 

I was lucky to obtain a Titan as an in-warranty replacement from EVGA for the second failed GTX690.  When I bought the 690, I was thinking "buy the best", never even dawned on me that VRAM was so important.  It is VERY important as simulation platforms evolve, and more of the 'rendering' work is pushed to the graphics card and off the CPU.

 

This means much nicer frames, more complex graphics, and a flight experience we've all been waiting for.  We all want max eye-candy, and the juggling between what's on screen and what the frames counter is telling us has taken a lot of the joy out of our hobby (at least for me it did).

 

That's why when I went to triple-screens, I didn't ask ONE video card to render three times the work in the same amount of time.  It simply stands to reason that frames would radically suffer.

 

So the pc-per-monitor solution, while costly, is the one that will ultimately reward your investment.  X-Plane can split the image across a gigabit network and render to 3 (or more) pc's all at the same time.  It's simply incredible what that looks like during flight.

 

+1 for AMAZON.  I buy only direct from them, and generally AVOID their 'trusted partners' so I can rely on a 'no quibble' return policy in the first 30 days.  That is GOLDEN.  So much so I have discontinued purchases from other online electronic vendors (e.g. "new egg" or "tiger direct").  New Egg will only replace a defective video card, they won't take it back for refund (as stated on their website).

 

The loyalty I have for Amazon has rewarded them with a significant number of purchases.  My main flight deck PC components almost exclusively came from the Jungle River website.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for reminding me about Amazon! For some reason I forgot about them. I buy a LOT of book from there, but tend to forget they also carry electronics.

 

I placed my order from them because of the return policy. Only $399.99 plus 2 day shipping $13.96.

 

  EVGA GeForce GTX 770 Superclocked with ACX Cooler 4 GB GDDR5 256-Bit Dual-Link DVI-I/DVI-D HDMI DP SLI Ready Graphics Card 04G-P4-3774-KR

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got my new build, which includes a 660ti, but I also have a nice 770 4GB sitting in a box right next to it.  My intent is to try out the 660ti and if it does not perform like I want it to, I will install the 770/4gb.  The likely scenario is I will return the 660ti and keep the better card.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got my new build, which includes a 660ti, but I also have a nice 770 4GB sitting in a box right next to it.  My intent is to try out the 660ti and if it does not perform like I want it to, I will install the 770/4gb.  The likely scenario is I will return the 660ti and keep the better card.

 

[stepping up onto podium]

 

Get as much VRAM on your video card as you can afford - it will serve you well.  I regard the VRAM as more critical than the cores, or the clockspeed... for XPlane 10, it is of SUPREME importance. 

 

As XP develops, the 'burden' of rendering the overall image (airplane, terrain mesh, textures, roads, cars, boats, clouds, etc) 30 or more times a second becomes harder and harder.

 

If you have increased your graphics slider settings, you'll desperately NEED as much VRAM as you can get... especially as you pile ever more-demanding tasks on your sim.

 

I particularly like the Msi "Twin Frozr" cooling pipes with twin cooling fans.  Whisper-quiet, and extremely effective.  I also like EVGA, for their USA-based aftercare.  As I previously wrote, consider buying a warranty on the video card.  The EVGA GTX690 I purchased less than 2 years ago had 'issues' and was replaced twice in two years.  I am gratified that EVGA took it upon themselves to 'do the right thing' and did an in-warranty swap to the TITAN in lieu of the 690.  

 

I can't help noticing that the '690' card did not regenerate in the 7-series product lineup.  It's either too hot (temp wise) or some other issue suggests that nVidia is de-emphasing the card.

 

Currently, none of the major sim platforms support SLI-technology, so the on-card SLI on the 690 was useless.   Worse, the "4GB VRAM" they advertise is split in half (2GB per GPU), so only 2GB of VRAM was available at any given time.

 

In my mind, 6GB is 'just right' for XPlane, but if that's not doable or realistic (and let's face it, paying so much more for 2 more than a 4GB card is just crazy), then I think 4GB is 'the sweet spot', for now.

 

I highly recommend you keep the 4GB 770.  You will NOT regret doing so!  Also, be sure you have a good quality and sufficient watt rated power supply.  They are reasonable- I recommend Corsair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4GB card you really only see the value of a lot of VRAM when you get into higher resolution multi-display sort of setups. Even with 2 monitors at high resolution, 2 GB will likely be enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4GB card you really only see the value of a lot of VRAM when you get into higher resolution multi-display sort of setups. Even with 2 monitors at high resolution, 2 GB will likely be enough.

 

Hi Mo, It's my understanding that while 2gb may be enough for FSX, as that is the amount of Vram that is allocated for FSX, where P3Dv2 and XP are concerned, additional Vram is of huge benefit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...