Common sense should prevail.  If some silly VA told me that ALL flights must follow 250/10000, then I would be out the door.  Then again, some silly VA's make you sit on the PC for the whole time, sucks to be doing a 15 hour flight.

 

Many times I have heard ATC say "cancel speed restriction" so I can assume the 250 knot rule can be broken?

 

Cheers

 

 

"cancel speed restriction" so I can assume the 250 knot rule can be broken?

 

 When you hear this it's applying to SID, STAR or procedure speed restrictions. ATC is not allowed to break FAR regulations.

We had a lengthy discussion about this a little while back, even had input from an ex DC10 driver that says he never had to request or inform ATC that the minimum clean speed was above 250knots (pretty sure he is American)

 

I know for sure in the UK and Middle East you don't have to tell them your minimum clean speed, they are used to traffic flow and know what to expect.

 

Speaking to an ex 744 skipper who is now on the 777 and flys out of LA/Houston & Chicargo back to base- He said 9 out of 10 times everything is fine, but you may get one new guy who does everything by the book, you explain your clean speed and they leave you to continue. It's all about common sense.

 

We did have the discussion, and I believe we concluded that in the US you don't have to say anything, however in the UK you have to request permission to fly quicker than the speed limit (when one is imposed) before doing so.

 

If that's not what we concluded (with regards to the UK) I have probably not been banging my head hard enough against the wall

I understand exactly what you're saying however it's a good idea to inform atc because of the flow of traffic and conflict/separation.

 

This is not at all true, and I really wish people would stop trying to assert this.  Granted, yes, no harm will come of it, and it's a massive CYA, but the ATC handbook (7110.65) specifically tells controllers not to expect it.  It does this to relieve the burden of reporting on the crew; advise controllers that they should be familiar enough with the rule to know which aircraft will likely be operating under the 117d exemption; and unclog the frequency (as I always say: think of how dreadful flying out of MEM in the FDX push would be with all of the unnecessary reporting of their MD-10/11s and 777s).

 

Controllers aren't stupid.  It's not tough to remember that if you see an MD-11, DC-10, 744 (it's the -8, and not the -800, by the way :wink: ), 777, you may need to be a little more careful about it catching up to a lead aircraft on departure.

 

It really isn't a conflict/separation issue, either.  The necessity to operate at faster than 250 knots normally only comes on departure.  Sequencing and separation are not as much of an issue for two reasons:

1. Traffic is divergent.  Most SOPs also reinforce this by dictating that ground controllers stagger traffic to the same fix by placing a departure to another fix in between them.  Additionally, sequential departures off of the same runway will often be given different headings on divergent courses (in FAA land, that's 30 degrees difference while in the same general direction).  Moreover, traffic is going in different directions on departure, in general, anyway (unless in the case above).
2. Compression isn't as much of an issue.  When arriving, aircraft must eventually slow down to an approach speed.  When departing, aircraft are all generally expanding, or at least not compressing.  The issue on arrival is that aircraft are going from roughly 240 and having to get down to somewhere around 120-160.  That's 80-120 knots of compressive difference.  For aircraft needing to operate above 250 on departure, they generally only need 10 or 20 knots over.  As such, the compression isn't that extreme (in controlling, that's pretty negligible, honestly), and won't cause any issues.  Departure controllers have to handle jet and prop departures after all, and those differences can be more extreme (e.g. JS4100 used a 170 knot climb, while most jets use 250).  I was doing 110 and had an Austrian 767 behind me.  Solution?  Vector.  It's not the issue that you're all making it out to be.

Yeah, he was a little behind me (he's still taxiing up to 30 as I'm 1000 feet down it), but that 140 knot difference would be made up quickly if the tower didn't have me fly 010 after departure to get out of his way - buddy took this on our way up to FDK for a meeting.

 

 

 

We did have the discussion, and I believe we concluded that in the US you don't have to say anything, however in the UK you have to request permission to fly quicker than the speed limit (when one is imposed) before doing so.

 

If that's not what we concluded (with regards to the UK) I have probably not been banging my head hard enough against the wall

 

haha - nope - you're spot on!  I feel your pain.

What were you flying and how many hours do you have?

What were you flying and how many hours do you have?

 

It was a 172 that day.  My buddy and I wanted to get up to an AOPA meeting that night at FDK, but he had to work until pretty close to the meeting.  Solution: straight line distance at double the speed limit (Route 15 north of JYO is also a huge risk, because if you get caught behind someone slow, you're stuck behind them now that they removed most of the passing zones).

 

...and I don't mean to be too secretive, but I don't like discussing my hours.  I don't like it when people rest on, or make assumptions about knowledge or skill based on hours.

Kyle, out of curiosity, if you won't answer hours (and I agree with you that hours aren't the greatest indicator of ability), do you have an MEL? I'm PPL-SEL-I, thought about getting the multi, but never did it. Is is worth the having, if you did it?

 

 

Kyle, out of curiosity, if you won't answer hours (and I agree with you that hours aren't the greatest indicator of ability), do you have an MEL?

 

I don't have multi, no.  I don't have a need for it just yet, as the C400 I have access to is more cost effective for me to fly than the multis that I have access to (Seminole and Diamondstar).  I plan on getting it, but I'd be getting paid to use it, so that's my excuse.

I don't have multi, no.  I don't have a need for it just yet, as the C400 I have access to is more cost effective for me to fly than the multis that I have access to (Seminole and Diamondstar).  I plan on getting it, but I'd be getting paid to use it, so that's my excuse.

Good excuse. I looked at it because I've been an owner in the past and twins with the higher useful load I need to transport wife and kids are more affordable than single sixes and the like (on a purchase basis, not necessarily upkeep).

Most VA's I have been associated with allow you to leave comments when filing a PIREP.  What I do is state that I exceeded 250kts under 10K due to weight constraints.  No one has ever dinged me yet.

Most VA's I have been associated with allow you to leave comments when filing a PIREP.  What I do is state that I exceeded 250kts under 10K due to weight constraints.  No one has ever dinged me yet.

Yet....