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Padpilot

P3D V2 as it stands

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Hi simmers,

 

I'm very new to the whole flight sim world but have recently invested heavily in hardware. I need to make a decision within the next couple of weeks on which flight sim software to use, FSX or P3DV2.

 

I plan to use it to run an Engravity MiP probably with ProSim737 or the SimAvionics suite. The rig is an over clocked I7,

with 16Gb RAM, SSDs, Nvidia 770 and 64 bit Win 7.

 

Clearly P3D ought to be the obvious choice but I've noticed that as experience grows with it more people seem to be finding serious bugs.

 

Bottom line: is P3D2 ready and stable enough to run it in a training environment or should I use FSX to start with whilst waiting for P3D to mature a bit?

 

Id be really grateful for some thought from the experts!

 

Many thanks in anticipation,

 

Graham

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Hi simmers,

 

I'm very new to the whole flight sim world but have recently invested heavily in hardware. I need to make a decision within the next couple of weeks on which flight sim software to use, FSX or P3DV2.

 

I plan to use it to run an Engravity MiP probably with ProSim737 or the SimAvionics suite. The rig is an over clocked I7,

with 16Gb RAM, SSDs, Nvidia 770 and 64 bit Win 7.

 

Clearly P3D ought to be the obvious choice but I've noticed that as experience grows with it more people seem to be finding serious bugs.

 

Bottom line: is P3D2 ready and stable enough to run it in a training environment or should I use FSX to start with whilst waiting for P3D to mature a bit?

 

Id be really grateful for some thought from the experts!

 

Many thanks in anticipation,

 

Graham

 

P3D v2 for sure. It's a refined version of FSX where like most software all you need to do is install it, configure the in sim menu options to give you the best performance for your system, and your done. FSX is too cumbersome meaning it doesn't work right out the box without you tweaking config files, overclocking your CPU, and whatever else that's needed to get it to run half as decent as what you'd get from P3D v2 (it was coded for hardware that never made it to the market). P3D v2 is new so add-on's will trickle down over the next few months. All of FSX stuff needs minimal tweaking by the developers to get their products to work in P3D v2. So have patience and get into this hobby for the love of flying not side IT work.

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Let me start by saying I have zero experience with P3D, but based on similar observations as I am following the discussions on avsim and other sources, how much time are you willing to spend on getting things to work, given that you might have some already to do with the hardware setup itself as this will be your first. FSX costs USD30. Atleast once you setup FSX with a stable suite on your hardware and it's all configured, we know it works very well and so many have done it before, then you can consider P3D when you would've kind of been there done that and probably know the difference. Diving head first into Hardware and P3D both of which might be new to you, atleast I would think twice as it offers too much variables. I won't be sure which is failing, you know what I mean.

 

All the same, good luck with your setup, whichever way you choose to go.

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If you are new to the flightsim world, start with Prepar3d V2. This is the future for sure. And it's a platform with great support from LM.

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I'll add to the above post by Charan and offer a different point of view. Setting up new hardware is one thing but having to fanangle with FSX to get it tuned right and chase down tweaks that work best for your system is silly. P3D v2 is new and easy to get into. Just install and go. The only configuring you'll have to do is like you would any other software title and that's adjusting the in-sim menu settings to suit your needs. You won't be in the middle of training with an OOM issue popping up out the blue. The best advice we all can give to you is only use 100% P3D 'v2' compatible add-ons. The only issue at this point with it being new is getting our add-ons in this community to work with it. You have the hardware all you need to do is install and go. Yes FSX is only $30 but it's not even made to exploit much less use today's current hardware efficiently. Get the Academic License for P3D v2 with a 60 day money back guarantee. In another year or two P3D (whatever version by then) will be the standard for this community, might as well get on board now.

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I'll add to the above post by Charan and offer a different point of view. *snip*

 

Point well taken :)

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Fsx users have suffered too long with tweaks, theories, overclocking, CTD's, stutters, FPS limiters,etc,etc,etc,etc,  Go with P3Dv2.  It is the future and it looks bright too.  What an interesting time for flight simulation!

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I'll add to the above post by Charan and offer a different point of view. Setting up new hardware is one thing but having to fanangle with FSX to get it tuned right and chase down tweaks the work best for your system is silly. P3D v2 is new and easy to get into. Just install and go. The only configuring you'll have to do is like you would any other software title and that's adjusting the in-sim menu settings to suit your needs. You won't be in the middle of training with an OOM issue popping up out the blue. The best advice we all can give to you is only use 100% P3D 'v2' compatible add-ons. The only issue at this point with it being new is getting our add-ons in this community to work with it. You have the hardware all you need to do is install and go. Yes FSX is only $30 but it's not even made to exploit much less use today's current hardware efficiently. Get the Academic License for P3D v2 with a 60 day money back guarantee. In another year or two P3D (whatever version by then) will be the standard for this community, might as well get on board now.

 

Dillon, lets keep this friendly of course, but almost nothing of what I'm reading indicates that P3D is just an install and go affair, at least not at this point, or for everybody.  Is this truly where P3D stands? I don't have it myself yet, but I guess you're fully up and running with it now, with your new hardware and stuff, right, so you can attest that it is completely tweak/workaround/trouble free in it's vanilla form?

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Wow! Many thanks for all the advice. What a great forum! The last thing I need to do is spend time tweaking, this isn't a hobby for me but a necessity for training ATPL students!

 

I'm hugely relieved to hear that most of you think P3D is ready for the job!

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Not up and running yet - still buying kit for the 737 rig. I've spent the last 3 weeks getting our A320 FDS hardware and software up and running. Talk about baptism of fire! The A320 is running on FSX and for the moment. My operating principle is if i aimt broke don't fix it!

 

However, for the new 737 system Im starting completely from scratch.

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Is this truly where P3D stands?

There are definite bugs, few products are 'optimized' for V2 and hopefully there is such a thing as optimization for V2, but yes you can start it, run it, enjoy it, many/most add ons work w/ it w/o many or any issues.  But clearly, it's not polished and those bugs while not complete show stoppers do appear to be actively being addressed (visit the V2 forum at P3D, and even 3PD sites like ORBX and presumably others).  In practical terms, I can create a flight plan & run it with NO problems, as long as I use the known workarounds for the known issues.

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Dillon, lets keep this friendly of course, but almost nothing of what I'm reading indicates that P3D is just an install and go affair, at least not at this point, or for everybody.  Is this truly where P3D stands? I don't have it myself yet, but I guess you're fully up and running with it now, with your new hardware and stuff, right, so you can attest that it is completely tweak/workaround/trouble free in it's vanilla form?

First of all you can't compare what it takes to get FSX up and running to P3D v2 even at this stage where it could use a patch for the minor issues reported, that's my main point here. Most of the issues people are reporting concern trying to run the sim with settings higher than they should, hack installing FSX add-ons, or needing to upgrade their hardware. Outside of that the issues reported aren't show stoppers from using the sim. With FSX if you don't find the right tweak it's a show stopper. Most after a few initial rounds are finding they like P3D v2. J van E, Arwen, and others have attested that they can install, configure the menu options to suit their machines and go. No one is saying they have to go into config files in the way one had to do with FSX. If you can find those write-ups let me know. Here's two examples on my end:

 

Here J van E had a situation trying to use FSX add-ons, after he went back to default to wait for official patches P3D v2 had no issue. P3D v2 runs great most are reporting vanilla:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/427860-back-to-hell/page-10

 

Here we have Arwen's testimate to P3D v2, she's using it with FTX Global:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/428296-prepar3d-v2-with-ftx-global/

 

I trust these people along with the likes of PMDG and Aersoft who are jumping on board to support this for a reason. I'll have the sim up and running soon enough but until then I challenge you to find me posts where people have to tweak P3D v2 with config hacks like they have to do with FSX. The OP will have far less work installing/configuring P3D v2 than he'll have with FSX.

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I can also confirm: P3D V2 works perfect without any tweak on my system.

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I can also confirm: P3D V2 works perfect without any tweak on my system.

 

I should think it would be running quite nicely with your 5ghz overclock and 760 card

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That's right, but for FSX I had to use a lot of tweaks to run it nice and stable.

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First of all you can't compare what it takes to get FSX up and running to P3D v2 even at this stage where it could use a patch for the minor issues reported, that's my main point here. Most of the issues people are reporting concern trying to run the sim with settings higher than they should, hack installing FSX add-ons, or needing to upgrade their hardware. Outside of that the issues reported aren't show stoppers from using the sim. With FSX if you don't find the right tweak it's a show stopper. Most after a few initial rounds are finding they like P3D v2. J van E, Arwen, and others have attested that they can install, configure the menu options to suit their machines and go. No one is saying they have to go into config files in the way one had to do with FSX. If you can find those write-ups let me know. Here's two examples on my end:

 

<snip>

 

Well, again friendly, but the only way I can describe my feelings on the matter is to use a battlefield analogy:  You've rushed to the front of the ranks, thrust your sword in the air, with your hat stuck on the tip, and are shouting "We got em on the run, men!  Chaaaarge!"

 

I'm perched a little further back than that trying to see what's going on through the smoke with my binoculars.  I am not convinced that your brigade has carried the day just yet, and in fact I'm seeing a lot of wounded straggling back, holding their guts in.  Don't get me wrong.  I am rooting for you and others to have success with P3D, as long as you keep it real.  I'm not sure that you can definitively declare on behalf of everybody that it will be all smooth sailing or that the problems that people are experiencing in the point zero release are going to be viewed as but minor hindrances or easy and acceptable workarounds to everybody, nor take into account what addons people may or may not be happy living without, in the short term.  It seems there is still a lot up in the air, no pun intended.

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Dillon, lets keep this friendly of course, but almost nothing of what I'm reading indicates that P3D is just an install and go affair, at least not at this point, or for everybody.  Is this truly where P3D stands? I don't have it myself yet, but I guess you're fully up and running with it now, with your new hardware and stuff, right, so you can attest that it is completely tweak/workaround/trouble free in it's vanilla form?

 

Try it for yourself and form your own opinion (rather that what you read on wordpress). LM has a no-questions-asked refund policy so there's nothing to lose. 

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Dillon, lets keep this friendly of course, but almost nothing of what I'm reading indicates that P3D is just an install and go affair.............,

 

Just like FSX surely?

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I am not convinced that your brigade has carried the day just yet, and in fact I'm seeing a lot of wounded straggling back, holding their guts in. 

 

I'm beginning to think this way as well now, and I have the hardware.  What I've found is in some really busy areas performance is unpredictably worse than flying in lesser areas would have caused me to think.  I just did 3 flights all w/ the same basic settings for scenery and other graphic parameters EXCEPT for the new DX11-related ones in V2 for one flight.   Near KSEA in the RA Duke heading into a sunrise here's what I saw:

 

FSX, bloom disabled:  42FPS on the runway, then 50 or so heading SE towards Seattle downtown about 4 miles out.  I use very high end AA settings so image sharpness and freedom from jaggies is perfect.  And the sim runs very smoothly.

 

V2 w/ HDR/Tessellation/shadows on, verified V2 'in focus', GPU use 88%:  FPS 27 on the rwy, and 26 on a similar path towards downtown.

 

V2 without these DX-11 related effects, I'm seeing 37 on the rwy, and 35 towards downtown.

 

While these are hardly very controlled tests, it points to some real issues I think.  As I say the part of the mystery for me is that I do get quite good performance in other areas and the effects are very nice.  For example in the the LA area in the A36 w/ road traffic at 100% late dusk and full sliders right for scenery I was seeing over 30 frames and very smooth.   But this may not bode well for really intense aircraft like PMDG stuff AT heavy to process terminals, which is where those tend to be flow in and out of.   This does make me want to retrieve the hefty pro license cost and maybe tune in later, OR just keep it and enjoy it for what it is, which is great for lighter aircraft though the Duke isn't ultra light by any stretch, and very much unknown for the heavier birds in complex terminals.  Be curious if others find this the case at KSEA area w/ FTXG installed for both sims.

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Try it for yourself and form your own opinion (rather that what you read on wordpress). LM has a no-questions-asked refund policy so there's nothing to lose. 

 

It's actually not practical for me to do such a thing, and I've never been much of a fan of the buy now decide later anyway.  The testimonials I've been reading have been exclusively on Avsim.   In my case I'm already GPU bound with FSX, but I'm not going to buy a new 780 or Titan for installation in my current FSX, and a much older machine (990x).  So in my case, it is a matter of rebuilding a much newer machine (that I already own, but is not configured for flight simming) into a P3Dv2 platform, and it will involve transfering flight simulation hardware from the old to the new.  Once that happens, it can only be the end of FSX for me, unless I feel like spending a week or more reinstalling dozens of beloved addons, keeping track of the myriad configuration changes, and the hell of re-creating and tuning a fully stocked FSX all over again for a new system.  If I did the switchover now I would be holding P3D, no planes that I want to fly, and tapping my fingers on the desktop impatiently waiting for 2.1 for errors to be fixed, native addons to arrive on the scene, and whatever other unknown frustrations I might run into, peculiar to my individual setup.  Bottom line is, p3D better be damned good, better than a precisely tuned FSX+all addons combined, to make me do that transition.  I'm going to switch, but it might be a month, a year, who knows.  I hope it's soon.

 

btw, DylanM, the only reason I handed you a dislike for your comment, was because you handed me one.  I didn't particularly dislike your comment until I saw that it came along with a red smacker. :mellow:

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Most of the issues people are reporting concern trying to run the sim with settings higher than they should, hack installing FSX add-ons, or needing to upgrade their hardware. Outside of that the issues reported aren't show stoppers from using the sim. With FSX if you don't find the right tweak it's a show stopper.

 

I'm one of those still evaluating/waiting, in part due to the potential add-on compatibility issues you mention.  I'm really not any more interested in plain P3D v2 than I would be in plain FSX or plain XP10.  Some add-ons are critical for my use, and some of those that I view as critical are certainly not yet ready for P3D prime time or simply flat out don't work.

 

But frankly, the situation with FSX is, for me, exactly what you describe for P3D v2 if you take away add-ons.  FSX ran fine for me straight out of the box with in-sim setting adjustments.  The "tweaks", which in my system amount to I think 4 settings in fsx.cfg, only became desirable (I can't even say needed) after I started piling on the add-ons.  And, BTW, I haven't touched the config file in probably over a year and a half now, so it's not like the constant tweak-fest some describe in my case.

 

Were I starting fresh today as the OP is, I'm not sure what I'd do.  I don't think there's much question that the future will be P3D and XP, which really hasn't been mentioned but should be as one of the potential alternatives, but I'm not convinced that the future is now.  I certainly don't think the situation is a drop-dead no-brainer.

 

Scott

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I've been evaluating P3Dv2 the last week after using FSX for years. Regardless of all nice new features in P3Dv2 I decided to go back to FSX for now and main reason is I want a stable fight simulation environment where I can spend my time flying rather than trying to make things work.

 

Despite this I don't regret I purchased P3Dv2 and I do think that's where the future will be for most of us but IMO the product need to work better before I do the final switch.

 

So...to the original poster I say it all depends on your needs and what you're looking for now and in the future. If you want a stable simulator where things actually work as long as you have a well installed and configured FSX and with tons of addons I would go with FSX for now and then get P3Dv2 when they've addressed the current issues and bugs and the addon developers have catched up offering true P3Dv2 addons. I think you'll be able to enjoy FSX for at least 6 months or even a year until P3Dv2 will be there.

 

Or if you want the latest right away with some really great features not found in FSX but don't mind having to cope with some issues for some time until they are addressed and the fact that not all addons will run that good and some of them not at all then you should go with P3Dv2.

 

As for "tweaks" in FSX and that you need those is not true. After I reinstalled FSX after a hardware upgrade I'm not using one single tweak and FSX runs smooth as butter and looks beautiful! Search for my name (Richard Åsberg) on YouTube and you'll find lots of flights I recorded where you can see for yourself what my FSX looks like and how it performs with many advanced addons installed.

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You have a huge choice to make right now. Once you start to heavily invest in add ons the choice will become difficult

 

FSX world changed for me after OC'ing my card to 4.6

If you dont mind overclocking then you should not have the typical CTD's reported with low to medium systems eg, crash on clicking menu bar and others

 

good luck with whatever you choose and dont write off the 64bit Xplane either

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P3DV2 offers a money back guarantee...so why not. You could also buy both. What's another $30 if you are running on a $500+ prosim setup? Either way you can't go wrong. FSX takes lots of tuning to get right...

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