Option for FMC to use data from FSX instead of AIRAC

[ZoomAir 1]

Hi, ZoomAir,

 

It isn't all that difficult to find and install AFCAD files for new or modified airports on AVSIM.  These will update existing airports (e.g. KIAD, KORD) or install new ones.    They are very easy to install or uninstall and require no additional software.  You don't need to create or modify your own using ADE.

 

Mike

 

Cheers for that informative feedback, so you saying this will deal with situation where airport ICAO has been renamed or runway angles etc changed. 

 

For example if its name change, was told you need to use ADE to delete old airport before adding new one.

 

I assume its easy to just lift newer airport from AVSIM if its just runway changes, but its in the case where airport ICAO has changed that I am confused about.

 

Already mistakenly purchased too many PMDG products before realising I have to deal with this database micromanagement, as well as keep my FSX from crashing.

 

Will stick to more practical and user friendly add-ons future to make my life easier I suppose.

Ironically, I did it the other way around. I updated the default FS2004 waypoints, so they would match the current AIRAC. Yes, I did say FS2004 as I don't use FSX, but the same could be done in FSX as well.

 

I am mostly concerned about the airports for now, but the wider picture will do too. Is there a tool for this that I can use for FSX. That will update airports too

[77west 139]

Will stick to more practical and user friendly add-ons future to make my life easier I suppose.

 

The best example of short-sightedness in a long while.

 

If you want to use complex training based simulations, you can't expect to be babied along. The new Navigraph tool makes managing your addon AIRAC cycles as easy as a few mouse clicks.

 

If this is still too much for you, by all means switch to entertainment based simulations. PMDG has given you a LEVEL-D CLASS sim without the movement on your home PC and you expect to operate it like a Kia in a parking lot?

 

Hmmmm.

[ZoomAir 1]

Absolutely zero chance we'll be doing this, sorry.

 

If you want flight plans that are guaranteed to work with the current navdata cycle, get PFPX - it'll make a reasonably realistic route from anywhere to anywhere for you using the current cycle.

 

I am currently using PFPX, its just very distracting from the primary objective of flying to be ensuring  every bit of PMDG FMC data, matches up with the FSX world in which I fly the PMDG plane. 

 

That is why I was hoping PMDG might be nice to give those new to FSX and PMDG an easier route by allowing option to use database from the sim world (FSX platform)

 

Else a new PMDG user cant really reliably use a PMDG product till he has ensured to bring FSX database to some degree of correlation to what PMDG FMC sees.

 

Its like getting a SatNAv where the OEM vendor  updates the map according to future city plans, while you driving around with the satnav in current city plans. Its a lot of hassle. 

 

That means, Currently PMDG products are designed only for those willing to do the hard work of updating their FSX database to latest real world data before attempting to use the product. Otherwise you may find your destination airport does not have your designated runway or the airport no longer exists etc etc etc. 

 

Is there a way I can get very old Airac from PMDG that I can put in 737,747,777, MD11 etc, else am just about done messing about with database issues rather than flying.

 

Thanks for the feedback

The best example of short-sightedness in a long while.

 

If you want to use complex training based simulations, you can't expect to be babied along. The new Navigraph tool makes managing your addon AIRAC cycles as easy as a few mouse clicks.

 

If this is still too much for you, by all means switch to entertainment based simulations. PMDG has given you a LEVEL-D CLASS sim without the movement on your home PC and you expect to operate it like a Kia in a parking lot?

 

Hmmmm.

I am in this hubby for the flying, the more complex the better, and ofcourse goes without saying the PC management expertise that is essential for this hubby.

 

But I was hoping I could avoid damping my enjoyment of PMDG products by spending significant flying time micromanaging database, that is not fun.

 

Imagine getting into your car in the morning and having to ensure the data in your satnav matches the current layout of your city, cause the satnav is based on future city plans and not current city plans.

 

I am not shy of dealing with complexity in FSX, just trying to avoid some of the things that take the fun out of it.

 

Most if not all FSX ATC tools get their nav data from FSX, cause the ATC tool is built on FSX platform. So its very confusing when something is based on a given platform, but relies on data from another platform. That means you as the user have the JOB of filling in the GAP in the middle.

 

Don't get me wrong, all I fly right now is the PMDG 777 and loving it, hence my eagerness to get this platform data relationship anomaly fixed. Maybe some enterprising genius reading this thread will develop an add-on for filling this ugly nav data gap that we have with certain complex FSX add-ons.

[ubersu 78]

The 0608 AIRAC is available for PMDG and multiple other add-ons from the AVSIM library... http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=nav&DLID=91747

 

DJ

[ZoomAir 1]

The 0608 AIRAC is available for PMDG and multiple other add-ons from the AVSIM library... http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=nav&DLID=91747

 

DJ

Thanks a million for this. Will give a try.

 

I tried this a while back, on the NGX and it did not seem to update the FMC.

 

Will try again, I hope it works for all PMDG a/c cause I got most of em

 

cheers.

[77west 139]

I am in this hubby for the flying, the more complex the better, and ofcourse goes without saying the PC management expertise that is essential for this hubby.

 

But I was hoping I could avoid damping my enjoyment of PMDG products by spending significant flying time micromanaging database, that is not fun.

 

Imagine getting into your car in the morning and having to ensure the data in your satnav matches the current layout of your city, cause the satnav is based on future city plans and not current city plans.

I actually have a constant battle making sure my satnav matches my city and it is WAY harder and more expensive to update than any FSX add-ons. My city is getting a network of new ring roads none of which are in my satnav or "car FMS" and its always telling me "you are not on any marked road turn around when safe to do so!!" You can ignore the FSX data, just make sure your flight planner, current aircraft FMS and your EFB if you have one are all on the same version. No issues. Try the Navigraph FMS data manager, it scans your add-ons and automatically updates them, what could be easier? (naturally for a small fee)

 

Sadly I cannot ignore Frau Farbissina in my car. She tests me... and loathes me I think.

[ZoomAir 1]

I actually have a constant battle making sure my satnav matches my city and it is WAY harder and more expensive to update than any FSX add-ons. My city is getting a network of new ring roads none of which are in my satnav or "car FMS" and its always telling me "you are not on any marked road turn around when safe to do so!!" You can ignore the FSX data, just make sure your flight planner, current aircraft FMS and your EFB if you have one are all on the same version. No issues. Try the Navigraph FMS data manager, it scans your add-ons and automatically updates them, what could be easier? (naturally for a small fee)

 

Sadly I cannot ignore Frau Farbissina in my car. She tests me... and loathes me I think.

 

very usefull info thanks. I was busy updating FSX database earlier, good to know I need not bother with that, but then I also rely of default GPS quite heavily.

 

I like the idea of just updating airac for addons only using  Navigraph FMS data manager.

 

But  what handles the situation where the name ICAO of airport in your flight plan does not exist in FSX maybe cause it has changed, or maybe the runway heading have changed or ils .

 

I am warming to the idea of going the updating route if its easy, but PMDG products based on FSX platform will be more user friendly with a mode of operation that uses FSX platform navigation data only. 

 

 

 

cheers

The 0608 AIRAC is available for PMDG and multiple other add-ons from the AVSIM library... http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=nav&DLID=91747

 

DJ

 

Hi

 

this link has an install file called PIC-PMDG_0608.exe

any tips on best way to install this.

 

It seems to be looking for a location, and not sure which install location to give it.

 

I am guessing it maybe fsx root folder, or should it be fsx\pmdg root etc

 

Also any tips as to what folders to backup just in case.

 

Thanks

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Else a new PMDG user cant really reliably use a PMDG product till he has ensured to bring FSX database to some degree of correlation to what PMDG FMC sees.

 

I don't think you're quite understanding all of what needs to happen in an aircraft using IRU/IRU/GPS/[DME] processing.

 

You could fail both nav radios entirely for your flight and you'd be fine (unless you needed to shoot the ILS to finish the flight).  Why?

 

The aircraft systems could care less about the signal they get from the ground.  Granted, yes, they do tune nav radios to add another layer of redundancy into the mix, but if they can't pick up one in the database, they move to the next to check that one.  Even without the DME inputs, it's still on IRU/IRU/GPS, which is what you're getting out over the Atlantic, which is more than fine.  The GPS actually made trans-Atlantic flying so precise that people started adding IMprecision back into it (see "SLOP") to add distance between the aircraft for an extra layer of safety.

 

Why am I telling you this?

 

It's not a huge deal that the FSX data doesn't match the FMC data.  Like I said earlier, if it can't tune a VOR, it'll go looking for another one to grab DME info for.  Additionally, there aren't too many LOCs that have changed frequencies in between now and then.  As far as changed airport IDs, the only time that would matter is when you're setting your aircraft up at that airport in FSX (which allows you to search by name, too).  It'll match between your FP and the FMC, so that's not a huge deal.

 

Basically, I feel like the effort being described here is trying to get someone to do a mountain of work in order to avoid doing a few things locally.  It's as simple as downloading a few AFCADs for the airport issues, and, unless you happen to fly VOR approaches a decent amount, those frequency changes are not relevant.  The systems navigate to the VOR based on its GPS position, using IRU/IRU/GPS.

[wolke85 150]

Basically, I feel like the effort being described here is trying to get someone to do a mountain of work in order to avoid doing a few things locally. It's as simple as downloading a few AFCADs for the airport issues, and, unless you happen to fly VOR approaches a decent amount, those frequency changes are not relevant. The systems navigate to the VOR based on its GPS position, using IRU/IRU/GPS.

 

+1

 

 ... I also think that, once set up properly, it usually just takes a few minutes every now and then to update various AIRACS.

 

The only thing i also do furthermore is to keep the outdated FSX navaid-data and magnetic variation data more up-to-date as is described here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/336155-magnetic-variation-updates-for-fs9-and-fsx/

 

Also using the - already mentioned here in posts #6 above - "makerunway" tool, which is available for free here at Pete Downson's page ...

http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html

 ... may help to improve things.

[ubersu 78]

>>>It seems to be looking for a location, and not sure which install location to give it.

 

 

 

I am guessing it maybe fsx root folder, or should it be fsx\pmdg root etc<<<

I suggest you create a temp\fsx subdirectory and install it there - it should create any of the sub-directories it's looking for and make it easy to move the content to your real FSX directory. Frankly it's been so long since I used it that I can't remember what the installer is looking for.

 

DJ

[ZoomAir 1]

I suggest you create a temp\fsx subdirectory and install it there - it should create any of the sub-directories it's looking for and make it easy to move the content to your real FSX directory. Frankly it's been so long since I used it that I can't remember what the installer is looking for.

 

DJ

cheers nice idea will try that, PMDG could save me this hassle though.

I don't think you're quite understanding all of what needs to happen in an aircraft using IRU/IRU/GPS/[DME] processing.

 

You could fail both nav radios entirely for your flight and you'd be fine (unless you needed to shoot the ILS to finish the flight).  Why?

 

The aircraft systems could care less about the signal they get from the ground.  Granted, yes, they do tune nav radios to add another layer of redundancy into the mix, but if they can't pick up one in the database, they move to the next to check that one.  Even without the DME inputs, it's still on IRU/IRU/GPS, which is what you're getting out over the Atlantic, which is more than fine.  The GPS actually made trans-Atlantic flying so precise that people started adding IMprecision back into it (see "SLOP") to add distance between the aircraft for an extra layer of safety.

 

Why am I telling you this?

 

It's not a huge deal that the FSX data doesn't match the FMC data.  Like I said earlier, if it can't tune a VOR, it'll go looking for another one to grab DME info for.  Additionally, there aren't too many LOCs that have changed frequencies in between now and then.  As far as changed airport IDs, the only time that would matter is when you're setting your aircraft up at that airport in FSX (which allows you to search by name, too).  It'll match between your FP and the FMC, so that's not a huge deal.

 

Basically, I feel like the effort being described here is trying to get someone to do a mountain of work in order to avoid doing a few things locally.  It's as simple as downloading a few AFCADs for the airport issues, and, unless you happen to fly VOR approaches a decent amount, those frequency changes are not relevant.  The systems navigate to the VOR based on its GPS position, using IRU/IRU/GPS.

Thanks for the details above. My main concern right now is what to do about airports in PMDG FMC whose details differ from what I got in FSX. If I can fix that sorted. Its a shame  always have to check those details when choosing where to fly though.

 

Maybe one day we get an addon to fix this navigation data gap between fsx and addons. Else folks will have to pull there sleeves up and understand the details you post above before making a flight, and  I have to admit I don't understand half the terms you refer above. I am new to dealing with the nav data side of things but  getting a bit frustrated with the data gap made me post for help.

 

cheers

[Captain Kevin 586]

cheers nice idea will try that, PMDG could save me this hassle though.

I'm kind of lost here. You want PMDG to....provide a setup for outdated data when most people bought it for realism?

[Mike777 163]

Aside from actual changes in the ICAO name of an airport, which are very rare, I don't see that you should have many problems.  The T7 even has an option "Correct loc crs to FSX" which should fix any discrepancies between current and FSX runway course alignment.  An up-to-date AFCAD will overcome missing runways as well as misaligned/renamed ones. Ray Smith has made many high quality AFCADS, available here on Avsim.  The waypoints showing up in the FMC and available in the current Airac dataset will work just fine even if they don't correspond with those in the old FSX database.

 

If you do go ahead and install the old Airac, be very careful to back up your current one.  I believe all PMDG aircraft in FSX share the same navigation data - the 777 and 737 NGX do.  There are two folders involved, both in Flight Simulator X>PMDG.  One is NavData, the other is SIDSTARS.

 

Mike

[ZoomAir 1]

I'm kind of lost here. You want PMDG to....provide a setup for outdated data when most people bought it for realism?

Really on a good day, I could care less about Airac, all I am mainly trying to fix is that airports that say AAA in PMDG FMC don't say BBB in FSX  the platform the FMC is supposed to be based.

 

PMDG have already made it clear they are not going down that route here in this forum, so not sure why you saying I am still insisting on that. No doubt any simmer who buys PMDG when such option is available would be able to fly immediately to any FSX airport without needing any third party nav data addon to complete the product.

 

FsCommander and RC4 get their airport data from FSX, PMDG FMC would be much easier if it has a mode where it did the same.

 

I hope you can understand that

Aside from actual changes in the ICAO name of an airport, which are very rare, I don't see that you should have many problems.  The T7 even has an option "Correct loc crs to FSX" which should fix any discrepancies between current and FSX runway course alignment.  An up-to-date AFCAD will overcome missing runways as well as misaligned/renamed ones. Ray Smith has made many high quality AFCADS, available here on Avsim.  The waypoints showing up in the FMC and available in the current Airac dataset will work just fine even if they don't correspond with those in the old FSX database.

 

If you do go ahead and install the old Airac, be very careful to back up your current one.  I believe all PMDG aircraft in FSX share the same navigation data - the 777 and 737 NGX do.  There are two folders involved, both in Flight Simulator X>PMDG.  One is NavData, the other is SIDSTARS.

 

Mike

 

Thanks for the great info here. You are actually saying getting new AFCAD for given airport will fix everything including renamed airport, if so I found a relatively easy way out.

 

I hope I wount have issues with runway heading in new afcad not matching FSX gps.

 

 

Think I will pull back from back dating cause already updated FSX database earlier using this link  http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html

 

Alright, so from I here on, I can assume the instructions to install updated AFCAD will deal with disabling old AFCAD with different ICAO. Hope this works cheers.

 

That said,  PMDG fmc could still do with option to use FSX database

 

cheers will assume new AFACD is my fix for now.

[Mike777 163]

Thanks for the great info here. You are actually saying getting new AFCAD for given airport will fix everything including renamed airport, if so I found a relatively easy way out.

 

No, I don't think just installing a new AFCAD with a different ICAO will disable stock airport data under an older ICAO/Airport name (of course if the old ICAO is in an addon AFCAD, just remove the older AFCAD).  Under some circumstances it might cause multiple, overlapping runways and gates.  An addon AFCAD would fix a totally missing airport however.

 

I did think of a fix, but it would have to be on an airport-by-airport basis.  In fact I just tried this with FAOR, Oliver Tambo International, which used to be FAJS, Johannesburg International.  The problem is that when I type in FAJS, the 777 database, which is up-to-date, doesn't find it.  I think this is the issue you started with.  So:  Go into FSX>PMDG>NavData.  1) Open Airports.dat with notepad.  Find the line for FAOR.  Copy it.  Paste it just below FAOR.  Change "FAOR" to "FAJS".  Save it.  2) Open wpnavapt.txt.  Find FAOR again.  Now you will see four lines of data, one for each runway.  Copy them.  Paste them just below. Change "FAOR" to "FAJS" on each line.  To keep things readable, change the O.R.Tambo name to Johannesburg International as well.  Save this file.  3) Go to FSX>PMDG>SIDSTARS.  Search FAOR.txt.  Copy it.  Rename it to FAJS.txt.  (This last step will give you all the approaches and departures under FAJS.  In this example I already had a file named FAJS.txt because a previous Airac had the old ICAO name, and it wasn't overwritten). 

 

Now enter FAJS as your departure or arrival airport in the FMC and it will show up!  So will the departures and arrivals (but they are likely to be more recent than the change in ICAO name).

 

You would need to do this every time you download a new Airac dataset.  However since you don't seem to care about having up-to-date data, you would only have to do this once for each airport.  Such changes of ICAO are very rare -- this is the only one I can think of in fact, so this shouldn't be an onerous burden. 

 

Edit:

 

Actually, even simpler, as in the above example, just find out the new ICAO and use it!  In above example, if you entered FAJS and got a "not in database" message, just google it.  In a few seconds you would learn that it is now Oliver Tambo with FAOR.

 

I hope I wount have issues with runway heading in new afcad not matching FSX gps.

 

Why are you concerned about the FSX GPS when you are flying a PMDG aircraft with a far superior navigation system?  At any rate, the FSX GPS gets its data from the airports as currently installed.

 

Mike