Navigraph claims I pirated them, gave them proof I didn't, still took my money.

[RedSpinnaker 35]

<<< Nice self-serving damage control statement in attempt to save face with what was apparent growing concern of your heavy-handed practices >>>

 

 

Boiling it down, what changed from when this initially happened and now? This:

 

 

Given that fact that Max has chosen to discuss this in public, we no longer have any reason to believe that he has anything but good intent. Therefore we have chosen to take Max's word for being an upstanding flight simulator user, and also someone who takes his data security seriously. We therefore reinstate his account with his remaining cycles. We also offer him a year's worth of free access to all of our data as a compensation for the time he has spent on this issue.

 

So am I correct that you wouldn't devote any time to his case until he went public, discussed what happened, and you started seeing some people concerned of your policies, and thinking of moving to your competitor? Guess the change wasn't as much as him discussing this is public, and your sudden belief in his story, but rather a potential hit to your bottom-line.

[Benzhangar 108]

Magnus. Welcome aboard.

You have a mail in your box.

[max2770 75]

Well, the issue is resolved.  I'm happy with the resolution, and will enjoy the rest of my subscription.  As an amateur-but-selling-some-pictures photographer, I'm very familiar with copyright issues.  Although they have a bazooka as a policy, it must be pretty d**n rare that they're wrong - and that's why some people are charged with crimes, but walk out of court innocent.

 

Thanks to everyone for your support!

 

Max

Edited March 16, 2014 by firehawk44
Removed inappropriate language. Please to not swear.

[mgh 89]

The inordinate length of Navigraph's reply is only exceeded by its Terms of Services.

Its Terms Services include:
 

2.6
For recreational use only. You acknowledge and understand that the Navigraph Service is intended for ground based recreational computer game simulator software only.

 
This means  Navigraph  buyer's  are subject to the EU law consumer unfair terms. In particularly, a unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer shall not be binding on the consumer

[Christopher Low 5,393]

Bloody hackers :angry:

[OmniAtlas 93]

 

My name is Magnus Axholt and I am the ultimate responsible for the decisions made at Navigraph, particularly for exceptional cases like this one.

 

Hi Magnus, that is nice that everything is settled, and the issue is resolved.

 

If you don't mind me asking, can you let me know why Navigraph refuses to work with Jeehell FMGS? 

 

Jean Luc (the developer of FMGS, the free airbus cockpit avionics suite), has told us that your team has not been very cooperative in providing data for his cockpit suite.

 

He had to reach out to Aerosoft for navigation data for his program. In terms of choice, there is none (FMGS can only use aerosoft nav data pro) because of this decision.

 

Thank you.

Edited March 17, 2014 by n4gix
Removed excessive quote.

[ramrunner800 10]

I think that was a pretty reasonable stance taken by Navigraph.  They reserved their right to protect their product from piracy, but clearly recognized that their policy had damaged a customer and compensated that customer.  Definitely improves my opinion of them.

[Christopher Low 5,393]

I agree, although I think that they should probably have provided that full explanation directly to him a little sooner, so that he understood the situation.

[Tushka 0]

Weird, but hackers always very fast some reason. On the Russian forum download realised almost immediately just after hours. Surprised the real customers uploading it not caught.

[Q_flyer 766]

Mmm, my concern here is, what would have happened if the consumer in question, to whom this hack happened, had not had the tenacity or determination to fight the incorrect accusation from Navigraph?

 

Not everyone has the time, strength, perhaps even IT skills, to do what Max did to rightfully clear his name.

 

I can certainly see the Navigraph perspective and it's difficult to know the best way to proceed in situations like this, but ultimately as a customer advocate in a world where business has most of the statutory power on it's side, I feel that this happening once - just once - where an innocent consumer is accused of theft, piracy, and has monies taken from them without permission (the retention of monies after the account was suspended), is one too many.

 

As a long term Navigraph subscriber, seeing someone treated in this way up front, and the effort he had to make to clear his name (it appears amid constant suspicion), really puts me off dealing with Navigraph any further.

 

I understand piracy is a huge problem for developers, but too many times, those paying the price are not pirates but supportive genuine customers.

I agree, although I think that they should probably have provided that full explanation directly to him a little sooner, so that he understood the situation.

 

I definitely agree with Chris here too.

 

It's ok doing the full public apology once something has gone out there, but would Max have been compensated as equally had he not gone public.

 

Leaves a bad taste in the mouth this one.

[mgh 89]

I have no brief for Navigraph's over-the-top's Terms of Service  some are unenforceable.

 

But remember, it was  Max who let his computer be used to access the Navigraph data by pirates, so it's not unreasonable for Navigraph  not  to deal with him. 

[Christopher Low 5,393]

He didn't "let" them do anything.

[Lowflyer 97]

He didn't "let" them do anything.

Indeed. Pirates rarely ask for permission before helping themselves to your stuff.