Hi,

 

According to the FCOM v1 SP.11.2, if the departure airport is not in the FMC database you have to: 

 

If ORIGIN contains an ICAO identifier:

The following steps clear the ORIGIN and erase the previous route.

INIT REF key ............................................................................. Push

<INDEX .................................................................................... Select

<IDENT .................................................................................... Select

Inactive date range .................................................................... Select

ACTIVE date range .................................................................. Select

Transfers the inactive navigation database to the ACTIVE line

and removes the previously entered route.

Clear the NAV DATA OUT OF DATE scratchpad message.

Inactive date range .................................................................... Select

ACTIVE date range .................................................................. Select

Transfers the inactive navigation database to the ACTIVE line.

Verify the ACTIVE date range is current.

RTE key ...................................................................................... Push

Leave ORIGIN blank.

DEST................................................................................................Enter

 

The thing is that the FMC doesn't allow me to enter a destination airport if the origin is blank. I guess that means that that feature is not implemented in the PMDG's?

Is there also a possibility that the swap between two databases be implemented? I think it would be possible by giving access to a backup AIRAC, as your AIRAC is backed up during the installation of a new one at least by the NavData Pro from Aerosoft.

 

Are both ideas (possibility of having the origin blank + inactive database) planned for a future SP (or even in SP1)?

 

Thanks

Hi,

 

 

Anyone, please?

I think it should be possible to manually add your DEP airport to you navigation database file.

 

Those nav data files (Navigraph for example) are just text files and can be opened and edited with Notepad.

There was a thread a while ago on how to correct altitude restrictions and add waypoints to SID/STARS in the database, so they match real life.

 

I imagine the same can be done with airports and their coordinates.

(But I am not sure).

He's saying that he can't input a destination without a departure airport, but according to the FMS manual, this should be possible.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

You need to enter an existing airport close to your departure airport. Fly the departure procedure manually, then direct to your first waypoint and LNAV.

 

 

Stephane LI-THIAO-TE

Envoyé de mon iPad à l'aide de Tapatalk

He's saying that he can't input a destination without a departure airport, but according to the FMS manual, this should be possible.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

Yes, but if he can add the DEP airport to the database then he does not have to leave the DEP field empty anymore, so problem solved.

 

To be honest, I did not know you can program the FMC completely when you leave the DEP field empty (not a real life realistic scenario)......thinking about it.....No, I dont think this is possible.

No DEP airport means no take off runway and that means no Vspeeds and no reduced thrust (have not tried it yet though).

 

I was thinking about using a close by DEP airport (as mentioned already).....but I think the real FMC will start screaming that something is wrong with its position then.

Because it will compare present postion (GPS) to the Origin Airport position (DEP) and they must be within 6nm of each other or you get the INERTIAL/ORIGIN DISAGREE message.

 

I dont know how accurate all this is simulated ofcourse.

 

 

All in all, if it is possible to add the DEP airport to the database then that would be the best way to solve his problem.

 

Edit:

Also, there is a PMDG setting that lets you set from what runway length an airport will be displayed on the ND. If you choose 6000ft then only thos with a rwy longer than 6000ft will be displayed when you click the Airport switch on the display select panel.

 

I dont know, but maybe this has an influence on your DEP airport becoming availble or not?!

 

 

To be honest, I did not know you can program the FMC completely when you leave the DEP field empty (not a real life realistic scenario)......thinking about it.....No, I dont think this is possible.

No DEP airport means no take off runway and that means no Vspeeds and no reduced thrust (have not tried it yet though).

 

Hi,

 

The case is described in the Fcom, as I quoted it. You don't need to have a Dep airport in the FMC to calculate and enter your V speeds. You need the runway length that you can have at the airport, the weather and your weight, basically. Then you can enter your V speeds manually, or, you can also request them by datalink.

 

Regarding what is realistic or not, it is not a real life scenario also to modify your database in the plane. I know it seems quite unlikely that pilots IRL may be faced to this kind of situation, but the FMC is designed to work that way and I was curious to see if you could do it in the sim.

A exemple is for old airports that are closed in real life but you can have a scenery in fsx (like the famous Kai Tak in Hong Kong).

 

 

 

He's saying that he can't input a destination without a departure airport, but according to the FMS manual, this should be possible.

 

Completely exact, thanks! 

I know there some walkaround when an airport is not in the database, but I wanted to make it like in the FCOM, as the case is described.

 

Thanks,

It makes sense that it should be possible, because using the FMS to fly the aircraft is not required. Let's say that for some reason you decided to fly it "old-school" using VOR/DME only, and didn't pre-flight the FMS. You could decide in flight to start using the FMS, and so provide only a destination airport. Also, you could have the arcane situation of flying into some airport that is not in the database, but be flying to an airport that is, so again you'd want to enter the destination only.

 

One thing that does work in the sim (I used it the other day), is if you manually enter your gross weight in the TAKEOFF page, the FMS will give you your V-speeds, despite not having any flight plan. Weight is the only required entry, as all the other data pertains to takeoff performance, and is not required for basic calculation of the speeds.

 

O/T: Is there a way to enter pilot defined waypoints in the FMS?? In the sim at least, I have not seen the option. It's nice for oceanic because in the MD-11 I can create waypoints called ETP1, ETP2, etc.. and define it by Lat/Lon, then enter it in the flight plan as a regular waypoint. I've so far found no way to do this in the 777.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

You need the runway length

 

And how is the FMC going to know that then?

 

I guess you are using externall software to calculate Vspeeds?

Might have been worth mentioning that.

It makes sense that it should be possible, because using the FMS to fly the aircraft is not required.

 True you don't need to have  the fms at all  to fly the plane,   just fly  as they did in the old  days vor  to vor  or by looking out the window

Regarding what is realistic or not, it is not a real life scenario also to modify your database in the plane. I know it seems quite unlikely that pilots IRL may be faced to this kind of situation, but the FMC is designed to work that way and I was curious to see if you could do it in the sim./quote]

 

Here I was thinking you are having an actual problem.

 

Especially after your second post:

quote

Anyone, please?

unquote

 

That you are stuck somewhere and that you dont know how to leave the place cause it is not in the database!

 

Where in reality all you are doing is playing around with the sim, seeing what it can and can not do.

 

I cant even begin to tell you how busy I am at the moment with all kinds of crap real life has you do......but still, I thought since no one else offered anything......that I would try to help.

 

if i had know that you are just messing around.....

 

Might have been worth it to mention that as well!

 

I searched for 1/2 hour but could not find the damn "how to edit your navdatabase" thread!! to find out now....finally.....that you are not having a problem at all.....just experimenting!?

 

The reason I said that it is "not a real life realistic scenario" was not any critisism to how you do things.

I said that to explain why I was not familiar with this procedure......I simply have never run into the situation!

And I offered the database edit option as a possible fix to your problem.......correction, not problem but playing.

I am fully aware that you cant change the database in flight thank you!

 

 

Good luck with the rest of your experiments.

 

What a waste

Rob,

 

All my apologies to you because I understand now my post sounds agressive. It was not my intention at all! I'm french and my english may be approximative and may seem to intend thing not in the way i'd like.

 

Regarding the second one "anyone please?" It is because I had an error message while posting the first one and on the next day, I had zero view on my first post and I suspected a bug somewhere so I just wanted to remind/check if the first was actually really displayed on the forum.

 

Last, I actually recognized that I have not expressed any thanks to your answer, even if it was not what I was expecting, but once again it is my fault for not having expressed clearly my first request.

 

So I hope you will read this post and accept my apologies.

I didn't want to hurt you and I'm sorry.

 

 

Here I was thinking you are having an actual problem.

Especially after your second post:
quote
Anyone, please?
unquote

That you are stuck somewhere and that you dont know how to leave the place cause it is not in the database!

Where in reality all you are doing is playing around with the sim, seeing what it can and can not do.

I cant even begin to tell you how busy I am at the moment with all kinds of crap real life has you do......but still, I thought since no one else offered anything......that I would try to help.

If you are busy you don't have to answer posts and spend half an hour looking up answers, no matter how urgent the problem appears. That's your choice and if you feel you've wasted your time that's your problem. It's fairly clear from the OP what he was trying to do. Something many of us have tried doing, e.g. try out something you've read in the manual and see if the sim will work like the real aircraft.

 

 

The thing is that the FMC doesn't allow me to enter a destination airport if the origin is blank. I guess that means that that feature is not implemented in the PMDG's?
Is there also a possibility that the swap between two databases be implemented? I think it would be possible by giving access to a backup AIRAC, as your AIRAC is backed up during the installation of a new one at least by the NavData Pro from Aerosoft.

Are both ideas (possibility of having the origin blank + inactive database) planned for a future SP (or even in SP1)?

It would indeed be nice to have the previous nav cycle available to switch to, but it's not essential. That part of the procedure is only to clear the origin ICAO code. As you say the PMDG sim won't accept a destination without an origin entered. Maybe they could update that logic in a future SP. However you can get still replicate this procedure by entering a nearby valid ICAO code as origin, then the destination airport. Now go to the LEGS page and enter your current lat/long as the first waypoint and activate the route. The origin ICAO is still there as the route origin but when you takeoff your first waypoint will be your present position. You'll get an INERTIAL/ORIGIN DISAGREE FMC message, but you can cancel that.

 

So for Kai Tak you could enter VHHH as the origin. It's not ideal but it works.

Actually the situation where I use the more that feature is when I program the RTE2 for ETOPS with the alternate enroute airports and the ETPs. You don't really care of having a departure or destination airport. You just enter the alternate airports and ETPs in the route page 2 as far as I have understood.

Of course, this doesn't forbid you to enter airports in the page 1 but as it was stated in the FCOM, I wanted to try and found out that it was not working.

 

So yes, I actually use the walkaround that consists of either entering a nearby airport or my origin airport.

 

I hope it will be implemented anyway, just to be get even closer to the reality, I'm a bit fanatic! 

 

Thanks