26APR14 - SP1/300ER Update "What Could Possibly Take So Long?!"

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Can we assume that PMDG 777 + SP1/300ER, will be also available for P3Dv2 when it launches?

 

No: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/440788-26apr14-p3d-development-status-thread-updated/

 

 

Do you have any updates to tell regarding XP10?

 

Any updates would be stickied.  This is the last update, so it's the latest information: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/426981-pmdgs-xplane-10-development-fact-thread-updated-25nov13/

[Buddy2 0]

I don't particularly enjoy coming into the forums anymore these days, it is just disheartening to see the kind of things that are said in the community. 

I haven't participated on the avsim forums in quite some time because of this. The general attitude is rude at best. Newbs that don't put their last name getting flamed or locked on their first posts... Honest questions getting 50 different smart a$$ responses... Life is too short for that nonsense. It's quite a shame really. 

[ClearedtoLand 149]

It sometimes is astonishing that there even exists a word like patience in the English language. Or any other language for that matter.

 

But I don't like to be preachy, so I will simply add my voice to all of those who have expressed appreciation, and admiration, to the guys at PMDG for the amazing job they do with their products. It has never not been worth the wait.

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Joe,

 

I think updates from Robert should be locked and that would solve a lot of problems and misunderstandings.....

 

We have discussed this internally a few times.  It might prevent some problems- but it would have the effect that all of my updates would be "Sermon-On-The-Mount" without anyone being allowed to offer input, discuss or question...

 

I don't like that approach to things- because ultimately PMDG took root out of the fact that I was a simmer who participated in simmer discussions.

 

I'd like it to stay that way because ultimately I do like the relationship we have built with our customer base over the years.  I think what we really need is a re-imagining of how the forum works...

 

In the past we had half the PMDG team in the forum on most days- but as we have increased our productivity- this has necessarily caused members of the team to spend less time responding to the forum and more time doing... you know...  work. 

 

Might be time to add a few affiliate moderators to help us really dial down on the few folks creating angst in the forum- and see if that doesn't improve the level of discourse here. 

 

Gonna spend some time thinking that through....  hmmmm.....

[Aamir 2,907]

Gonna spend some time thinking that through....  hmmmm.....

 

 

Well, now I'm expecting this:

 

 

 

 

 

But in all seriousness:

 

\

 

 

You can't say no to a kitten, can ya!?

[Vodcoke 14]

Joe,

 

 

We have discussed this internally a few times. It might prevent some problems- but it would have the effect that all of my updates would be "Sermon-On-The-Mount" without anyone being allowed to offer input, discuss or question...

 

I don't like that approach to things- because ultimately PMDG took root out of the fact that I was a simmer who participated in simmer discussions.

 

I'd like it to stay that way because ultimately I do like the relationship we have built with our customer base over the years. I think what we really need is a re-imagining of how the forum works...

 

In the past we had half the PMDG team in the forum on most days- but as we have increased our productivity- this has necessarily caused members of the team to spend less time responding to the forum and more time doing... you know... work.

 

Might be time to add a few affiliate moderators to help us really dial down on the few folks creating angst in the forum- and see if that doesn't improve the level of discourse here.

 

Gonna spend some time thinking that through.... hmmmm.....

[Fabo 213]

 

 

Well, now I'm expecting this:

 

I was wondering how long it was going to take

[Vodcoke 14]

Ahh sorry, was going to respond to Robert post but I thought he said it all... Ipad sensitive buttons. Lol

[chris6273 1]

 

Hello all,

 

Please note, before you read this, I am sat in the comfort of my own home with a clear mindset, relatively satisfied with absolutely no intention of annoying anybody - this is purely to engage in some sort of constructive conversation. If you don't agree then that's fine (absolutely let me know your take on this), but if you're going to publicly state you don't agree just to start a flame war, then please just close your browser or click on this video to cheer you up youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM

 

I don't normally get involved with anything forum related because most of it is just other people being taken in the wrong way/out of context. However, for the sake of trying to help out, I'll let you in on how I see it from an "outsiders" point of view.

 

I've been an avid "reader" of the AVSIM forum for some time now. I say "reader" because the times I've posted in the past have always ended up with me being flamed/shot down/told to RTFM/whatever. I also spent far too much time watching it happen to other people, so in order to make sure that I could remain in a position to get the latest updates etc, I sat back and said nothing in order to avoid either annoying the wrong person (not purposely) which could potentially lead to some form of removal from the forum.

 

Now, I understand that the forum is not a "right" per se, but it is a place where you are providing support for a premium set of products. Those premium set of products attract people from all walks of life with different mindsets/mentalities, which unfortunately we have to cater for. What seems to be the trend is that a "certain" group of individuals cannot deal with adapting to newcomers/users in general with a different mindset and proceed to flame them. In order for any sort of order to be restored, before you post a reply to said people (that may seem as if they're trying to just "troll", etc), you really have to take a step back and just figure out exactly what is what- 9 times out of 10, they're harmless and are just here to figure something out.

 

I notice from time to time, that instead of engaging in a sensible conversation with users, they are instantly met with some form of threat (be it ban, removal of post or something along those lines). That just instantly pours a mass of fuel into an already raging fire- someone has to step down & in order to keep a certain form of professionalism, that should really fall with the person who is replying. 

 

Now of course, you have the idiots and you can clearly see from the outset that they're here to cause trouble. They can easily be discreetly removed without any need to make a fuss over them.

 

========

 

Anywayyyyyyyyy... now about the whole "I want it now" mindset.

 

As a long time customer of PMDG, I get it. I really do. I am completely with the people that want it right this very second. I talk with people quite regularly who also have the same mindset. I'm going to refer back to the "premium" price tag. The issue is, the FS market for a long time has been cheated to be quite frank. We have had some terrible products come through with a "mid-range" price tag, so naturally our trust (even with someone as well respected as PMDG) is lacking. I honestly believe that this is what causes the vast majority of the flaming regarding time scales etc etc. 

 

Having said that, there is also an inherent issue with the transparency of developers (PMDG included). Everything is very secretive & done behind closed doors & people constantly feel like they're missing out on things (again, trust issues). It is something that will continue until the bad stuff is completely flushed away and all we have is a solid addon base that leaves no trace of anything "nasty".

 

The issue I have personally (thankfully I have self control) is that waiting nearly 1 year for a Service Pack for a premium product doesn't quite add up in my head. I understand that things take time, but basic business logic would suggest that you meet demand with supply and if that means reinvesting into a stronger workforce, then you do just that. I'm not going to pretend I know the inner workings of PMDG, but it certainly doesn't feel like anything has changed since maybe the NGX days (I could again be completely wrong) - the sheer time alone between "things happening" leads me to that conclusion.

 

So to end this small essay (it's been years since I've written one!), I like what PMDG do, they have the marketing side of things down to an absolute tee (literally, which other company has you on the edge of your seat like PMDG do?) but I think it's getting to a point now where tactics are becoming too "samey" and people are wising up to the whole "cycle". 

 

Thanks for reading & please, don't take anything out of context - I really can't stress that enough. I'll leave a kitten as a goodwill gesture (it worked for the guy a few posts above me!)

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

I could not agree more!

 

I was one of the many people who were watching your livestream last night and agreed with (almost every) issue you spoke about.

 

I think part of the issue is the lack of in-depth updates from PMDG which makes things seem secretive coupled with the fact it's taking so long. Some people may say "Well, it's up to them whether they give updates or not - It's not up to you" which is obviously true however with that said it's extremely frustrating when something has been announced from a developer who is usually seen as one of the 'créme de la créme' developers and then there doesn't seem to be anything going on. 

 

PMDG are not the only ones doing this but I'd have thought (Bearing in mind what Matt mentioned) that PMDG would have pushed out at least some detailed updates and possibly a hotfix or two for their latest product bearing in mind they have been charging a bomb for their products? And bearing in mind it's taking so long as Matt said, surely they'd re-invest money back into the company/products to introduce more staff for example, to fix issues quicker and possibly release further products quicker?

 

All seems like a grey area to me

[AirborneZed 168]

Hey Matt. I know PMDG is aware of the delay of this SP, he explains in the beginning of the original post.

 

As for Transparency, I think Ryan had a fit about that not too long ago, that they are as transparent as they can be. Which I 'kinda agree thinking as if I'm in their shoes.

 

But one of the many things many of us questioned and probably still do is the release method for the SP and 300ER, just as an example.

 

1. The testers don't have the 300ER

2. The 300ER will not hold up SP1

3. But they are releasing at the same moment

 

Have they decided to skip beta testing of the 300ER? or have they changed their mind about the 300ER holding up the SP? 

 

Maybe it isn't out business, and maybe we shouldn't question anything at all. Because to them, it's like calling them liars or something.  :unsure:

[MattDavies 320]

 

 

Maybe it isn't out business, and maybe we shouldn't question anything at all. Because to them, it's like calling them liars or something

Perhaps not, but if we didn't take an interest, then who would? We're their customers at the end of the day  B)

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Gents-

 

Matt tries very hard to make some valid points- but the bottom line remains that he is misinformed, asking for things that are contradictory, makes insulting assumptions that have no basis in reality- and appears to be trying to pass it off as if the criticism is somehow constructive or helpful.

 

The fact is- Matt has unwittingly highlighted why so many sim developers flat out ignore their customer base.

 

What matt (and a few others) effectively say is:  "I want it now- I want you to spend time feeding me information on it, I want it to be perfect at time of release, I want you to update it with new features, I want you to get the updates out quickly, I don't want to pay for updates, I want you to tell me what you are working on right now, and I want to be able to criticize you for "pimping the product in public" even though it isn't ready for release, I want to demand new features but I also want to complaint that the features you are showing me aren't the ones I want to see."

 

Over the course of PMDG's history I have provided hundreds upon hundreds of updates to let you know what is happening.  At times, there isn't much new information to share... yet I get taken to task because I don't update you more frequently....

 

So I make a few changes and put out a new update- then I get ######ed at because "there isn't much new information here!"

 

Translation:  We get yelled at when we tell you things... we get yelled at when we don't tell you things....

 

And Matt comes riding in here to give out lessons on how to handle the forum?

 

Most of these "helpers" wouldn't survive two days on our end of the forum.