Can you save a plane in distress ?

[makdrive 9]

This is a question to Flight simmers who are not REAL world pilots. 

Based on your experience on simulators and hours of flying on your PC, do you think you have got enough knowledge to save an actual plane in distress and save the day if need arises ? (with a couple of failure alerts on EICAS  :ph34r:)

 

I for myself, NO ! because I never practiced failures on any aircraft in my Sim.

 

 

[VLJ510 16]

Well real world pilots not only have hours on home PC simulators (if that's their thing), but more so high-end level-D simulators where they are tested on emergency situations on a regular basics.  I'm sure they would not be in the cockpit if their employers doubted their ability to handle any and all situations and had tested them beforehand in a controlled environment.

[FSX4Life 2]

All I'd know is where the FMC is and would in a basic sense understand instructions from ATC to program  course and autoland. And I'd be able to properly convey the aircraft's status, knowing where (and how to read) the fuel indicators, etc.

 

As far as manual operation, I've got no sense for the physical weight of the aircraft and feedback from manipulating the controls. The vibration & resistance of my G940 is a far far cry away.

[Budbud 227]

Hi,

 

Save a B777 in distress? I'm pretty I wouldn't be able to.  However, i think I could bring it down to a full ILS approach with autoland provided everything works, following ATC instuctions in case of pilots disability... But I wouldn't try a manual landing...

[jetsflier 87]

I've seen another thread similar to this, and what it seems like it boils down to is that you have a better chance of success than anybody else on the plane, but even then, not a great chance!

[KriVa 307]

There's a reason the "big boys" use those big Level-D sim and years of training and instructions...

[bönan 7]

With a few thousands hours (wow...) on different flight simulators I was able to land a Cherokee without any help. It wasn't a good landing, though...

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

People who have been simming for years, usually spoil their first landing in a Level-D simulator. In a real plane, under real pressure, things won't be easier, so ...

[KriVa 307]

Keep this in mind: If one of us (simmers) is to get behind the controls of a proper airliner, without being an actual pilot, chances are the plane is going to be quite battered up already. (Food poisoning for an entire flight crew hasn't happened in recent years for all I can remember.)

Sure, most of us could program a diversion and an ILS in a fully working airliner. But when those systems trip offline, I don't really see "us" having a big chance of getting it down in one piece. A larger chance than someone without any experience, sure... But still a small chance.

[FLEX1978 373]

I have always found these kind of topics fairly pointless..  Take a pick of any of these accidents and ask yourself if you would have done any better with zero experience on anything bigger than a paper aeroplane 

 

 

 

2012[edit]

• April 2 – UTair Flight 120, an ATR-72, crashes shortly after takeoff from Roshchino International Airport, Tyumen, Russia, killing 31 of the 43 passengers and crew on board.
• April 20 – Bhoja Air Flight 213, a Boeing 737, crashes near Chaklala airbase, Rawalpindi, Pakistan in bad weather, killing all 127 people on board.
• May 9 – In the Mount Salak Sukhoi Superjet 100 crash, a Sukhoi Superjet 100 crashes into Mount Salak, Indonesia on an exhibition flight, killing all 45 passengers and crew on board.
• May 14 – In the Agni Air Flight CHT, a Dornier Do 228 crashes near Jomsom Airport, Nepal during a go-around; of the 21 on board, 6 survive.
• June 2 – Allied Air Flight 111, a Boeing 727, overruns the runway on landing at Kotoka International Airport, Accra, Ghana and crashes through a fence; the aircraft then hits a bus on a nearby road; all four crew survive but twelve are killed on the ground.
• June 3 – Dana Air Flight 992, a McDonnell Douglas MD-83 carrying 146 passengers and 7 crew members crashes in a suburb of Lagos, Nigeria on approach to Murtala Muhammed International Airport, killing all on board and 10 more people on the ground.
• June 29 – Six people attempt to hijack Tianjin Airlines Flight 7554, an Embraer E-190, 10 minutes after takeoff; passengers and crew are able to restrain the hijackers until the aircraft makes an emergency landing; of the 101 on board, 2 hijackers die and 2 more hijackers and 11 passengers and crew are injured; this is China's first serious hijacking attempt since 1990.
• September 12 – Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky Air Flight 251, an Antonov An-28, crashes in Kamchatka Peninsula, Russia, killing 10 of the 14 passengers and crew on board.
• September 28 – Sita Air Flight 601, a Dornier Do 228, crashes on the bank of the Manohara River, Kathmandu, Nepal after a bird strike, killing all 19 on board.
• October 7 – FlyMontserrat Flight 107, a Britten-Norman Islander, crashes after takeoff from V.C. Bird International Airport, Antigua and Barbuda; of the four on board, only one survives.
• November 30 – In the 2012 Aéro-Service Ilyushin Il-76T crash, an Ilyushin Il-76T freighter crashes short of runway threshold on approach to Maya-Maya Airport, Brazzaville, Republic of Congo, in bad weather, killing all 6 aboard, 26 on the ground, and injuring 14.
• December 25 – Air Bagan Flight 11, a Fokker 100, crash-lands on a road near Heho Airport, Myanmar, killing one on board, one on the ground and injuring 11.
• December 29 – Red Wings Airlines Flight 9268, a Tupolev Tu-204 on a repositioning flight, overruns the runway on landing at Moscow's Vnukovo International Airport, then breaks apart and catches fire; five of the eight crew on board are killed in the first fatal accident involving the Tu-204.

2013[edit]

• January 29 – SCAT Airlines Flight 760, a Bombardier CRJ200, crashes in thick fog on approach to Almaty International Airport, Kazakhstan, killing all 16 passengers and 5 crew on board.
• February 13 – South Airlines Flight 8971, an Antonov An-24, crash-lands in dense fog at Donetsk International Airport, Ukraine, killing 5 of 52 people on board.
• April 13 – Lion Air Flight 904, a Boeing 737 carrying 101 passengers and 7 crew members, crashes into the ocean while attempting to land at Ngurah Rai International Airport on the Indonesian resort island of Bali, injuring 46 people.
• April 29 – National Airlines Flight 102, a Boeing 747 freighter, stalls and crashes shortly after takeoff from Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan, due to load shifting, killing all seven crew members on board.
• May 16 – Nepal Airlines Flight 555, a de Havilland Canada DHC-6, overruns the runway on landing at Jomsom Airport, Nepal, injuring seven people.
• July 6 – Asiana Airlines Flight 214, a Boeing 777, crashes short of the runway on landing at San Francisco International Airport, killing three of 307 on board and injuring 182. The crash was the first fatal accident involving the Boeing 777.
• July 7 – A de Havilland Canada DHC-3 operated by Rediske Air crashes on approach to Soldotna Airport, Alaska, killing all 10 people on board.
• August 14 – UPS Airlines Flight 1354, an Airbus A300 freighter, crashes short of the runway on approach to Birmingham–Shuttlesworth International Airport, killing the two crew on board.
• October 3 – Associated Aviation Flight 361, an Embraer 120, crashes shortly after takeoff from Murtala Muhammed International Airport, Lagos, killing 15 people on board.
• October 16 – Lao Airlines Flight 301, an ATR-72, crashes shortly before landing at Pakse International Airport under adverse weather conditions, killing all 44 passengers and 5 crew on board.
• November 17 – Tatarstan Airlines Flight 363, a Boeing 737, crashes at Kazan International Airport, Russia during a go-around, killing all 50 people on board.
• November 29 – LAM Mozambique Airlines Flight 470, an Embraer 190, en route from Maputo International Airport, Mozambique to Quatro de Fevereiro Airport, Angola crashes into Bwabwata National Park in northern Namibia, killing all 33 people on board.
•  

[troyk 27]

Yes. I have absolutely no doubt I would save the plane, save the day, and land the plane safely with no injuries.

[makdrive 9]

Take a pick of any of these accidents and ask yourself if you would have done any better with zero experience

the crash where pilots were intoxicated, I think I can do better than that for sure

[777simmer 117]

Initially when I think about it I want to say YES you have a pretty good chance.

 

It all seems so easy doesn't?!

 

50-30- start to pull for flare/throttle goes idle-20-10 touchdown, autobrakes. done :-)

 

But then.....quite often when we are 3 pilots for a long flight I am only observing during landing.

And if you pay close attention to the constant little corrections that are required to keep the airplane on the centerline on short final and during the flare....they come as a second nature now and dont require much thinking......it realy IS easy now( in favourable conditions)......but I still remember how incredibly difficult that all seemed during those fist hours of C152 flight training :-)

The instructor had to correct my control inputs many many times and that is what you would need on your first flight (no matter what type) as well.

 

If you have never actually dealt with some real crosswind or even light wind gusts....if you have never practiced that.....I am pretty sure you will land in the grass next to the rwy.

 

Maybe one can compare it to an arcade car racing game.

Every now and then you read in the newspaper about a 12 year old that thought it would be fun to take dads car for a spin. Only to crash the car in the second curve.

Seems so easy on the playstation right?!

But if you have never felt what a slippery road feels like, or what it feels like when you take a turn too fast, how the rear starts breaking away, how you can steer into that turn all you want, breaking makes things worse, etc etc.

And when things go wrong they happen so fast dont they.....

little chance anybody without real driving experience would correct appropriately and not end up in the grass.

 

And with landing an aircraft it is the same thing.

Once things start to go wrong in that flare it all happens so fast that the corrective reaction has to be second nature (=experience) or you will not be able to correct in time.

 

This required second nature response also explains why pilots have to keep current on the type they are flying.

You can't just stop flying and expect things to be easy after 2 years on the ground.

I stIll remeber my first landing in a C172 after 7 years away from general aviation.

Had to go up with an instructor to proove I can still fly a C172.

Currency on that type was expired long ago.

Rediculous right....me, a B737 pilot having to proove I can still land a Cessna, HA!

Little bit bumpy on approach, little bit cross wind....Would you believe me if I were to tell you that was the most embarassing cross wind landing I ever demonstrated?!

Everything feels and looks and behaves different in a little plane like that!

Sure, things come back to ya pretty quick.....but at first my reactions were definately not second nature.

 

 

And we are talking good weather conditions here with an airplane that has no defects!

 

 

I am sure most here can get the airplane down as long as the Automation works.

Maybe you will also get a little help from a pilot they woke up and sat next to the ATC controller.

And having flown the PMDG777, you are probably going to impress the heck out of that guy :-)

 

But without automation and in bad weather (even if if the airplane is 100% ok)....forget it.

Weather is extremely challenging and a good (firm) landing after heavy rain, gusts and crosswinds is extremely rewarding even to the highly experienced pilot.

the crash where pilots were intoxicated, I think I can do better than that for sure

Well,...you cant do worse...that is for sure ;-)

[makdrive 9]

Well if I am just a random guy trying to save a plane, it doesn't really have to be a perfect landing. Maybe a little off the runway, damaging the engines or the wings, but in the end if it saves 200+ people it's worth it.

 

I am off to a Level-D simulator next week, that will be one step above the PC simulator. lets see how that goes.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Yes. I have absolutely no doubt I would save the plane, save the day, and land the plane safely with no injuries.

 

 

Isn't that a bit like 'Independence Day' with the U.S. American President jumping from the Oral Oval Office into a fighter's seat to save the world?  

 

More seriously, a GermanWings Airbus crew some 3.5 years ago, approaching Cologne-Bonn (EDDK), became nearly incapacitated by some fumes (not even the final BFU report was conclusive on that ...). The Captain, being fully aware of the fact that a successful ILS autoland was even more difficult to ensure than a manual landing despite the impairment, opted for the manual landing.

 

http://www.bfu-web.de/DE/Publikationen/Untersuchungsberichte/2010/Bericht_10_5X018_A319_Koeln-Bonn_Geruch.pdf

 

... What would a sim "pilot" have done???   :rolleyes: