My question concerns the runway numbers and ILS patterns. I've noticed that they keep changing with their real world counterparts, but why? The airports don't change in FSX, unless someone makes an add on for them, and most of the ones that change drastically I've never seen an add on for that actually adds the extra runways. Just my nitpick.

 

Patrick Boynton

My question concerns the runway numbers and ILS patterns. I've noticed that they keep changing with their real world counterparts, but why? The airports don't change in FSX, unless someone makes an add on for them, and most of the ones that change drastically I've never seen an add on for that actually adds the extra runways. Just my nitpick.

 

Patrick Boynton

 

 

Definitely nitpicking, and definitely picking at the wrong source...

 

The navdata that's being updated is being updated by a nav data source (wherever you've purchased it from - Navigraph, etc.).  That source is updating it to keep it in line with real world navigation data (fixes are added, removed, and rarely, moved).  Runway data goes along with that.  The nav data provider is likely getting this information from multiple real world sources, and is simply translating the real world data into the sim data.  As such, if a runway changes names, it will change names in the FMC data in the sim, too.

 

The whole purpose of updating your nav data is to keep you in line with real world nav data.  If you don't like that, don't update it.  It's pretty simple.  Additionally, there are free programs out there (and often free bgl files that someone else has made already) to help you update your runway numbers.

 

So, no sense in nitpicking an issue that's not really an issue:

Update to stay in line with the real world; or

Don't.

 

Asking other people to change a random line between real and sim to suit potentially hundreds of different opinions as to where that should be is placing the burden on the wrong side.  I'm personally glad the nav data has all the right runways, because if it stuck with the sim, I'd be missing a runway in FSX at the airport I fly into and out of most often.  Why should I have to take a hit on my realism?

 

Entirely up to you.

If the magnetic declination changes enough at an airport those runways will likely be renumbered and those appear in the latest add-in NavData. If an airport adds, removes, or moves a runway, those runways are added or removed from the NavData. Of course, if there's no corresponding changes in the sim scenery to reflect the real world add-in navdata and magdec, you could be landing in a field. A route planner could seek through add-in data and compare to sim data, to produce a common subset of the most important features, to make plans more reliably. An alternative could be to use a navdata set that exactly matches the original sim, but seems unavailable. For those unconcerned about the data being explicitly current, that would be a nice feature.

I've taken off from airports where there were 6 runway numbers (3 runways side by side) (Bejing I think) in the Nav data, and only 4 runway numbers or 2 runways in fsx also have seen the reverse, where I had planned on landing on runway C that was big enough for my airplane, and got there, and there was only 1 runway and it was tiny. I am going by FMC data only.

 

Patrick Boynton

Hi Patrick,

 

Off course, as explained above, real airports change contrary to fsx, and it may lead to the kind of situations you faced in flightsim when you use real sets of nav data.

 

I have got also some surprises like that when you plan to land on a runway in the FMC that doesn't exist in fsx because it was build after in real life.

 

To avoid bad surprises, either you stop using updated nav data or get addons for the airports in fsx, or you check before your flight what is the status of the airport in flightsim.

 

For the latter option, here is a website that may help you. If I'm right, the charts are direct extract from fs and not from actual real airports:

 

http://www.fscharts.com/

 

Good flight!

Good subject. Regarding the PMDG/Navigraph data my wish would be a tool that can switch the FMC between RW and FS data usage. This way both groups of clients could get what fits best their needs.

BTW: I use the RW/FS data disagree problem as the "NOTAM part" of the flight preparation. If I find that my DEP/ARR/ALTNs data in the FMC differs from what to expect in the FS-world, I downgrade the FMC database accordingly concerning the ILS/LOC data. From time to time I update VOR/NDB FS Data, as it can be done quite easily.

Greetings,

Claus

 

 

Regarding the PMDG/Navigraph data my wish would be a tool that can switch the FMC between RW and FS data usage. This way both groups of clients could get what fits best their needs.

 

Not sure why anyone would want that.  I'm pretty sure anyone can find the AIRAC from back then (they were free at the time FSX was released).  That would match FSX perfectly.

 

I think it's more of an issue of simmers not truly understanding the data to begin with.  The only time a discrepancy becomes an issue is the approaches, but most airports have RNAV approaches now, if not an ILS or LOC.  The VOR and NDB approaches are so old that they're likely already in the sim.  So, where's the issue?

 

Apart from new/closed runways (which there are usually .BGL files for online for free), I really don't see where the issue is.  I'd appreciate hearing someone's rationale.

Personally, as I exlusively fly online on IVAO, I have to comply with the real procedures and therefore I need the up-to-date nav data.

The only time I got a big issue with that was when I flew to VGHS. In FSX you still have the old airport that is actually closed while a new one with the same ICAO code is now in the north west (don't remember how far exactly maybe 20nm) in R but not in FSX.

I had planned to conduct an ILS approach, but when I reached the intersection point with the runway axis, I realized that I was far from the ILS axis... I suspected first a problem of magnetic deviation as I got the right morse signal of the ILS.

I decided to abort the approach and went to miss approach procedure which was In the FMC.

According to the procedure, I had to overfly the runway, and then I discover that in FSX, there was no airport where it was displayed in my MFD.

I eventually when back to old navigation method with VOR to find the airport, getting rid of the FMC.

 

So I understand people who got issues with updated nav data as they can lead to this kind of situation but in another hand I agree with Claus when he says that this check could be included in the flight preparation, and that is what I do now also.

 

I also agree with Kyle in the sense that the updated AIRAC are available to people so they can repoduce real flight procedures in their flightsim. What is the point in having old data in that case? Even if they are discrepancies with the FSX. It can be interesting to consider discrepancies as failures.

For exemple, you choose in the FMC an ILS for a runway that doesn't exist in FSX? Nevermind, when you realize that during the approach because you can't catch the ILS signal, or because you can't see the runway, just go around, enter a hold and prepare for another approach. For me it makes the thinks even more interesting than an uneventful flight.

Not sure why anyone would want that. I'm pretty sure anyone can find the AIRAC from back then (they were free at the time FSX was released). That would match FSX perfectly.

 

Hello Kyle,

there are quite a few out there asking this FS/RW FMC data discrepancy questions quite often. So there are people who "want" that problem to be solved.

I have searched a bit for exactly that 2006/2007 AIRAC on the web without success. It is also not officially available at navigraph but it might be a good idea for them to provide a service for all FS9/FSX/ESP/P3D users to better deal with their stone carved data out of the box.

My concern is especially about the ILS/LOC FMC data discrepancy annoyance. Changing their values (to RW) inside the FS database is quite a pain. On the other hand VOR/NDB data (btw: still a reality!) are instead easy to update with freeware.

 

Anyone actually having a link for an old/historical (FSX suitable) AIRAC?

Same would apply to P3D...

 

Greetings,

Claus

Hello Kyle,

there are quite a few out there asking this FS/RW FMC data discrepancy questions quite often. So there are quite a few who "want" that.

I have searched a bit for exactly that 2006/2007 AIRAC on the web without success. It is also not officially available at navigraph but it might be a good idea for them to provide a service for all FS9/FSX/ESP/P3D users to better deal with their stone carved data out of the box.

My concern is especially about the ILS/LOC FMC data discrepancy annoyance. Changing their values (to RW) inside the FS database is quite a pain. On the other hand VOR/NDB data (btw: still a reality!) are instead easy to update with freeware.

 

Anyone actually having a link for an old/historical (FSX suitable) AIRAC?

Same would apply to P3D...

 

Greetings,

Claus

Claus,

 

The ILS FREQ/CRS issue is already handled by the USE FSX LOC/CRS option provided in the FMC > PMDG SETUP menu. Never have to worry about it ever again.

 

 

The ILS FREQ/CRS issue is already handled by the USE FSX LOC/CRS option provided in the FMC > PMDG SETUP menu. Never have to worry about it ever again.

 

Kyle,

this is true for the (automatic) course selection (variation) but not for the frequency itself...

Try (just for fun) an approach into EDDF in FSX with an actual AIRAC. You might be surprised...

It's not only airports and runways changed since the sim was made. Nav frequencies, names and locations have also changed. Using the FSX map to look up a frequency may not provide the correct value.

I wish there could be global update for FSX so that instead of having nav data corresponding to FSX, we would have FSX complying with the actual nav data!

Some kind of AIRAC for FSX if only it was so simple...

Kyle,

this is true for the (automatic) course selection (variation) but not for the frequency itself...

Try (just for fun) an approach into EDDF in FSX with an actual AIRAC. You might be surprised...

Forgot it was only CRS. Regardless, the amount of work involved in creating a feature to selectively import stuff would be project prohibitive on both ends. The time is better spent simply updating your BGL file when you find an airport has changed. That's really the only thing affected.

 

Sure, navaids may change names, frequencies or simply be put out of service, but the AIRAC in your FMS doesn't depend on the sim data like an ILS does. Navigating to the AML VOR via LNAV doesn't require the FMC to match up freqs. So, changes to the sim data versus RW don't matter in any case other than ILS, and those are so few and far between that you're better off just getting the updated BGL somewhere.

 

 

I wish there could be global update for FSX so that instead of having nav data corresponding to FSX, we would have FSX complying with the actual nav data!

Some kind of AIRAC for FSX if only it was so simple...

 

Agreeing 100%!

(BTW: the same discussions were led in the P3D forum...)

 

Best regards,

Claus