Sign in to follow this  
bernd1151

MSE v2 Germany...hmmhhh

Recommended Posts

Warning: this thread is a bit long!

 

I have enjoyed many beautiful scenery packages from MSE in the past, all oft hem covering the US. So far I have bought two European packages from them. The first one, Switzerland, I deleted the day after I had bought it, because the color variations between the different tiles were at least for me not tolerable. Being a German, I was excited, when they recently brought out photoreal scenery for my home country. And when they offered me a discount for being a customer with them, I bought all three parts. It took me three days to download them. Yesterday was my first trip and it took me straight to my home town in Westfalia. I was a feast, absolutely fantastic. I was happy to have taken the plunge.

 

But then It dared to fly into some of my favorite vacation spots, well….have a look for yourself. BTW, all photos are completely unaltered, just a press of the V button.The autogen scenery you see in some of them is from add-on suppliers such as Aerosoft and others.

 

Hamburg harbor

3_zpsd3f8f119.jpg

For me it is way too brownish and the water colors are completely off

 

Then I flew up north along the river Elbe towards the North Sea. This river is next to the Rhine river one of the largest in Germany

4_zps9d307383.jpg

I don’t think they know, what water masking is, or at least they have difficulties applying it to their sceneries. The islands in the center and the right river bank are FSX default scenery

 

Further north I reach the mouth of the river and decide to turn west

6_zps8dbd893a.jpg

Part of the right river bank is still default FSX

 

After the turn the scenery turns completely greenish, which is just plain aweful!!

7_zps1e24da19.jpg

 

8_zps796a1579.jpg

One of the greenish effects is this reddish North Sea water

 

I then decide to fly south along this tile to see, when it ends

9_zpsb378ba73.jpg

As you can see, it takes quite a while. The green even comes in variations

 

At its end the green color widens even further west

10_zps6c656e01.jpg

 

Ok, enough of this, let’s visit a friend near Leipzig in the east of Germany

11_zpsaed5080b.jpg

Some of the flight was quite pleasant actually, but here around Leipzig it starts all over again

 

Parts of the country you cannot see, as it is covered by clouds within the photoscenery

12_zpsf95c2509.jpg

 

The area further north-east of Leipzig and closer to Berlin is dotted with wonderful lakes. This is one of them

13_zps88421c61.jpg

No thanks

 

Let’s head south to Bavaria instead. The Octoberfest started today in Munich

 

Before landing in Munich I wanted to visit first the area between Munich and the alps, as I was tempted by the MSE pictures of that area and as I know this part quite well.

 

Entrance into alpine territory

14_zpsfce9c4e1.jpg

Brrrgh

 

Let’s forget it and turn west. This is the Forchensee, one of the many nice lakes in that part of Bavaria

15_zpsb1d85f87.jpg

Again way too greenish, especially in the distance

 

But it gets even worse further west

16_zps63320d4f.jpg

 

17_zpsc6013a8d.jpg

A thick layer of clouds cover a major part of this lake, which comes with two different color zones. Nice

 

This lake lacks water masking completely, so its pitch black

19_zpsda363454.jpg

 

Let’s try the alps one more time

18_zps918325bd.jpg

Interesting

 

20_zps3cdceb96.jpg

 

Ok, my final stop for today will be the Lake Konstanz, which was beautiful in the MSE promotional pictures

21_zpsd295400f.jpg

Not so here. The reason is, the lake is surrounded by three countries: Germany, Austria and Switzerland. As this scenery covers only Germany, the lake has on its right side MSE textures and on its remaining shores default textures. This is naturally also reflected in the water area. That is why it looks so strange. And unless you also buy their Switzerland and future Austria scenery, it will stay that way..

 

Conclusion: Like Switzerland, this is a mixed bag. I am not sure, how many customers PC Aviator expects from this scenery. At this state, I would suggest the scenery is still in beta and they should quickly go back to their drawing board and redo it completely. At $99.- they will make quite a few customers pretty angry, meaning they will lose them forever.

 

Ok, I guess I need an Octoberfest beer now. Anybody wants to join me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

There is one more thing to add, while flying a bit more above my home territory: some of the source data, MSE is using, must be over 12 to 15 years old. One example: where we have a big hyper market that was constructed 13 to 14 years ago, MSE shows a green meadow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting. Cloud cover was an issue in the past (Hawaii) and so all they did was make it $5. Also, if they have no evidence that this error is common in their own testing, have you thought maybe it's not their fault in this case? Maybe it is your computer? I highly doubt it is an issue on your end, but definitely speak to them I'm sure they will figure it out. That is ridiculous to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


There is one more thing to add, while flying a bit more above my home territory: some of the source data, MSE is using, must be over 12 to 15 years old.

 

Probably but that's just unavoidable, most of the world doesn't have free / cheap enough data available for such vast areas. United States is an unusual exemption in that matter. 

 

Personally I'm perfectly happy with the quality shown here, it's still way better than boring landclass based scenery. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Maybe it is your computer? I highly doubt it is an issue on your end, but definitely speak to them I'm sure they will figure it out. That is ridiculous to see.

Yes, first I also thought, it's my computer. I also have their Hawaii scenery (and lots more). The clouds do not show up in any other scenery I have (exept Hawaii of course), so it must be in their scenery. I have contacted Robert by email prior to my purchase regarding the water masking issue, as this bothers me a bit. That was around 2 to 3 weeks ago. I never received an answer. And when I was offered later a nice discount, I said to myself: oh well, what the heck, buy it and try it out. The water masking is luckily not as bad as it is with their Oregon/Washington scenery I have. But honestly I did not expect these strange color differences. As Robert did not answer (he is just too busy I guess), I thought the only way to make them aware of these issues is a post here on Avsim.

 

 

Probably but that's just unavoidable, most of the world doesn't have free / cheap enough data available for such vast areas. United States is an unusual exemption in that matter. 

 

Personally I'm perfectly happy with the quality shown here, it's still way better than boring landclass based scenery. 

 

I agree. I don't care that much whether there is a building missing or not, as long as there is the feeling that you fly above real territory. I just mentioned it, as I am a bit unhappy with the other issues their scenery has. Have a look at what France VFR and Aerosoft do in this respect in other parts of Europe (I have their French and Austrian scenery respectively). None of these issues do appear with them. So it seems that it can be done much more properly. Yes, they are a bit more expensive, but I would gladly pay the full price of $99.- when I would know that most of the issues that I reported earlier, do NOT show up. 

 

If this is an issue with the supplier of the source data, why do the other two companies I mentioned not seem to have those issues. Do they screen their suppliers more carefully, before they buy from them ? Again, if this is an issue of price versus quality, I think many here would not mind paying a bit more for better quality. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$99 is not cheap just for one country! For that I would expect at least the areas above to be patched up Before release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, they are a bit more expensive, but I would gladly pay the full price of $99.- when I would know that most of the issues that I reported earlier, do NOT show up. 

Well to get an area similar in size to Germany from FranceVFR you would need to pay hundreds of dollars, that's several times more expensive... Same with Aerosoft too as Austria is quite small area to cover compared to Germany.

 

A lot of those issues can be fixed with a bit of photo editing, however it's certainly very time consuming. 

 

 

Do they screen their suppliers more carefully, before they buy from them ?

 

 

Maybe they have some special sources, don't know. Most commercial data available for sale is ridiculously expensive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, MSE is taking money for some FsEarthTiles work, without full water masking and no photo editing? For me that is a scam on par with QW 787 Beta, 64bit converter, etc. There, I said it, shoot me now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, MSE is taking money for some FsEarthTiles work, without full water masking and no photo editing? For me that is a scam on par with QW 787 Beta, 64bit converter, etc. There, I said it, shoot me now.

 

It's not a scam as they deliver what they promise. Also, do you realize how much time would it take for an individual to cover entire Germany with FSEarthTiles? 

 

Pretty much any photoscenery product out there can be done by anyone with some time & minimal photo editing skills, yet I don't find selling them to be a scam. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much time? 3 days of photo editing? Maybe 20-30% of entire Germany is covered with "faulty" photo that need editing, so it's practically 1/3 of work. To earn money, you must do a proper work, like ORBX. Of course, ORBX has much bigger fan base, so they can work on scenery for an entire year, but that is not a point I want to say. The point is, MSE delievered a pretty low quality photo scenery, and they are earning money for a lousy job.

 

One thing that can't be controlled are areas covered with clouds, you can't edit that.

 

Just think about latest Austria Professional HD East, and the top notch quality it delivered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MMmmmm..

 

Was toying with the idea of getting this one...Not so now...I'll pass until it's all corrected if that ever happens.

 

A clear indication of "A picture is worth a thousand words".

 

Their Ultra res cities aren't bad...

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What should be avoided I guess is for this product to get poor reviews. because this is what's happening right now on a few German speaking sites. People see some of the posted images and understandably react the way Dave does: I wanted to buy, but now I'd better wait. $99 is not too expensive for an entire country the size of Germany. But the poor quality of some of the parts covered make it an expensive proposition. And we are all humans, at the end we only talk about the poor parts and forget the many good ones, the scenery has to offer.

 

From a pure marketing (and possibly image) point of view, PC Aviator should maybe withdraw the product for the time being (others have done so before), redo it, then repackage it in smaller parts of maybe 6 to 9 portions and price them in a way that they can make money with it, but keep us simmers happy too. It would be a win win situation. because as the product stands now, neither side will have much fun with it.

 

Oh, one more thing (I hope my fellow simmers will not kill me now): it's a new product and people are eager to buy it. So don't offer it from the beginning at a substantial discount . Just my 2 cents  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The coloring does not bother me much as you really cant fix that unless you had 300 planes flying in Germany at the same time. The thing they should should do is redo and improve is the water masking. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the lack of water masking turns me off too, but this kind of coloring is at least for me as bad:

 

16_zps63320d4f.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should not have released anything as bad as that. If they couldn't get the data to do it right the first time, then they should not have released it IMHO. Thanks for the mini-review as I was seriously thinking of purchasing. I was hoping to get the areas in Bavaria and south down through the Brenner Pass to Italy as I use to drive that route to/from Italy frequently back in the late 70's.

 

Best regards,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People don't understand photoscenery apparently.  I mapped out Switzerland in 60 cm and it was over 200 GB total size.  But looked gorgeous.  I blew away MSE2.  You simply aren't going to get very good quality with 30 mb downloads.

 

It does seem they are using free satellite imagery from those photos.

 

 

 

Scroll down for the links to my Swiss project.  Now if MSE2 would take the time to make scenery like I did here, they'd have a blank check from me...

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/426287-now-this-is-switzerland/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the issue at hand here is not the size of the product, as MSE has used 50cm source data, resampled for size reasons to 1m per pixle. So the total size of the Germany download comes to some 80GB, not as you said 30MB. If they had used the original size data, I guess that we would need at least 1.0 TB for this install, which would make it impractical for many of us.

 

The issue is more the lack of proper water masking and the partly horrible color discrepancies. I think, Jim described it best,when he said: If they couldn't get the data to do it right the first time, then they should not have released it IMHO

 

Btw, your Swiss scenery is terrific and I mean that. If you ever decide to share it with your fellow flightsimmers or want to make it commercially available, please let me know. I would really love to fly there, as it beats anything that I have for Switzerland

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really want to know what source data is used for Aerofly FS Swiss, it is simply the best to date. No color/resolution variation, sharp textures, good hue and colors.

 

 

BTW this is my 1000 post, yeah! B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I had seen this before I purchased Germany.  I have same issues as well as a large chunk of Northern Germany that is missing, no tiles!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, same here but they say it must be me? I have downloaded it several times but still missing a large strip across the middle. Is this the same as yours?

I have complained to MSE asking why they released it with tbh such poor quality water masks and colour.

but the dd not answer my questions.

Not veryhappy with them at the moment after buying 50+ of their products.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not flown all of Germany yet, just Munich to Lake Konstanz, Black Forest, along the Rhine river up north to Mannheim, then around Münster in Westfalia, then north of Hamburg and in the East from Leipzig to Berlin. At least on these flights I have not seen any missing tiles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolute dross, and I have spent a small fortune on scenery, but thankfully nothing from this company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this