I don't get it...perhaps slow this morning...

[mtaxp 666]

I really do like 10.30, but I am with you guys. Wheres the scenery!  Also, when running FSX or P3D the frames go lower at night because of the lights I would assume, but in XPX the frames get better starting at dusk. I guess because the trees are not being displayed? Really strange. I am maxed on the settings except shadows, and at KSEA in the 337 daytime, taking off on 36, I get about 24-25 all the way to downtown. The same scenario at dusk, and I get 33. 

 

Bob

I think it differs in this case , when shadows are displayed , lights are off , and vice versa.

I assume it's related wether you are CPU bound or not , shadows are CPU intensive , while HDR lights are not (GPU intensive).

In my case I have a crappy GTX 460 , and a I5 2310 , with no shadows , and when lights are on I have ~3FPS less.

[N1G 88]

I think it differs in this case , when shadows are displayed , lights are off , and vice versa.

I assume it's related wether you are CPU bound or not , shadows are CPU intensive , while HDR lights are not (GPU intensive).

In my case I have a crappy GTX 460 , and a I5 2310 , with no shadows , and when lights are on I have ~3FPS less.

Well I have an i7 2600k Oc'd to 4.8 and a GTX760 4 gig and 16 gig system ram. Not the fastest anymore but certainly capable. 

The 760 is OC'd also about 15%

 

Bob

[alpilotx 505]

The main reason for speed improvements from dusk till dawn is - as mtaxp already suggested - mostly because of shadows. They cost a lot (to my knowledge thy do so in P3D too ... you might correct me). And when they are "turned off" ... when it becomes dark, and there is no much sense to calculate them ... then of course this frees up some cycles on your GPU (and X-Plane is much much more GPU dependent that MSFS ... thus this effect is perceivable trough FPS gains). So, nothing strange here ... just pure math (algorithms / computation etc.) at play.

 

And by the way, with modern "instancing" tech, trees / forests aren't that expensive anymore (of course, the older the GPU the more costly they become ... that can't done away without magic).

[N1G 88]

The only shadows I am using right now is 3d cockpit only. At dusk or near dusk, there can still be shadows so I am not sure that this is 100% correct but I am sure it is part of it.

 

Bob

[CrownCityMisfits 58]

I think Orbx is putting all of their eggs in the P3D basket right now. JV at Orbx clearly stated that customers will have to re-purchase Orbx products for compatibility with P3Dv3 - which leads me to believe that P3Dv3 is likely to have a major engine upgrade, possibly 64-bit. Some have suggested that the decision NOT to develop for XP by A2A, REX, Orbx and ASN will be their downfall, but I think the opposite. They are standing on the bleeding edge of flight sim tech, waiting for LM to open the floodgates.

 

Maybe they will come around. For selfish reasons, I hope they continue to focus on FSX and P3D, but I'd be happy to see XP simmers be able to take advantage of their talent as well.

 

Good luck!

[gizmosellsbunnys 106]

Xplane to me is long term alternative to fsx and OSM editing is easy made 300 houses on my days off. Been making skyscrapers in sketchup as landmarks in Phoenix, Brisbane, ABQ and these are things fsx had. Xplane is do it yourself like fs2004 days. Need generic features like golf courses and parks but that will come in time. Why pay money when basic things can be done yourself.

[CarlosF 1,241]

which leads me to believe that P3Dv3 is likely to have a major engine upgrade, possibly 64-bit

 

If LM ever decides to move to 64 bit platform (which I believe will not be soon) and by the time 3rd party devs make all the necessary changes to their existing code, XP community will be enjoying XP11 or maybe even XP12, by this time XP will be far, far ahead of P3D for sure.

 

In my personal view, XP+ is the alternative I'm betting on.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Guys touting OSM... Yeah it's great in some places like in Europe but in the US it can be really spotty. I know my hometown of about 100k is poor. And no I dont have time to work on it... That's what I pay other developers to do. Please take my money for MN/WI/ND region.

 

Bashing Orbx is just silly... They have decent tech and if it can be ported to XP why reinvent the wheel?

This is EXACTLY how I feel....OSM, as you say, can make quite a difference for XPX.(x) in Europe...but totally 'not there', for North American flyers.  Very sparse, and I very much like to fly around my own State and virtual neighborhood....man...If I could have the graphic display for the whole world that ORBX Global offers (with seasons...!) for FSX/P3D...and seen,  in XPX....well...well...everybody would know then, where to find me...

Well I have an i7 2600k Oc'd to 4.8 and a GTX760 4 gig and 16 gig system ram. Not the fastest anymore but certainly capable. 

The 760 is OC'd also about 15%

 

Bob

Bob...if you can live without HDR..then you can pound the 30 + range for FPS.  For instance, I loaded up W2XP scenery, changed from Very High, to Extreme for the texture setting...left everything else as i normally have shown in a post yesterday...and my CPU/GPU could only pump out 3-5 FPS!  It was not my CPU...but that my 2GB card was overwhelmed.  I then turned off ONLY...HDR..and to my great surprise, when rebooting..(you have to...) I came back up to 30 + FPS.  HDR is a serious FPS sucker...but...for my immersion needs, it has to be engaged. So, for me...I think that I can stick with my present CPU/Motherboard...and will look at where the Maxwell cards sit, in six months or so....the feature sets will be increased, the manufacture will be decreased, and the price, more importantly, will be decreased!   My son, will score once more......he has my old GTX285, and will get my present 680.  He LOVES me...being in flight simulation....like a shark circling the boat....lol.

Xplane to me is long term alternative to fsx and OSM editing is easy made 300 houses on my days off. Been making skyscrapers in sketchup as landmarks in Phoenix, Brisbane, ABQ and these are things fsx had. Xplane is do it yourself like fs2004 days. Need generic features like golf courses and parks but that will come in time. Why pay money when basic things can be done yourself.

"Darn it, Jim..I'm a musician...not a tech-savy texture man!"

 

I'd rather pay the likes of ORBX for a whole-world, synchronized texture solution...than piece meal.  I do understand your point, though...about being able to conjure up what you want, and to have the tools to do/edit the project....I do.

I think Orbx is putting all of their eggs in the P3D basket right now. JV at Orbx clearly stated that customers will have to re-purchase Orbx products for compatibility with P3Dv3 - which leads me to believe that P3Dv3 is likely to have a major engine upgrade, possibly 64-bit. Some have suggested that the decision NOT to develop for XP by A2A, REX, Orbx and ASN will be their downfall, but I think the opposite. They are standing on the bleeding edge of flight sim tech, waiting for LM to open the floodgates.

 

Maybe they will come around. For selfish reasons, I hope they continue to focus on FSX and P3D, but I'd be happy to see XP simmers be able to take advantage of their talent as well.

 

Good luck!

I believe that a lot of users have migrated to P3D, from FSX, because...they could 'cheat the hang-man'....port over previous purchases.  Well..if what you are suggesting is true...then cost will be a factor from then on out.  I do believe that cost-of-hobby, is a large mitigating factor, as to what platform, a user will migrate to, from having gone from FS9, to FSX.  Make them repurchase (if P3D v3 will require it...) will be a pivotal point for most....  Some will translate to P3D v3, some will stay with the last version of v2....and some will say what the heck...time for a change...and be headed for XP 64 bit.  My prediction...will be..that there WILL be a latent migration..and if P3D does evolve...and I hope it does...good for all of us, that enjoy P3D...you will start to see more  'I'm a new XP adopter..and I have questions' threads start popping up more frequently....  Let's sit back, and see if I'm right.....

[deetee 164]

 

 

Bob...if you can live without HDR..then you can pound the 30 + range for FPS.  For instance, I loaded up W2XP scenery, changed from Very High, to Extreme for the texture setting...left everything else as i normally have shown in a post yesterday...and my CPU/GPU could only pump out 3-5 FPS!  It was not my CPU...but that my 2GB card was overwhelmed.  I then turned off ONLY...HDR..and to my great surprise, when rebooting..(you have to...) I came back up to 30 + FPS.

It sounds like you hit your video card's ram limit which would explain such a drop in FPS.

Next time you change your GPU Mitch, I would go for at least 3-4Gb video ram.

[alpilotx 505]

"Darn it, Jim..I'm a musician...not a tech-savy texture man!"

Well, I think one needs to put this in the right light: editing OSM is very very very far from tech-savy-ness ... its easier than taking a piece of paper and sketch a picture. Nowadays you just need a web browser, a few hours of time (ok, this is something many of us don't have) and thats it. You only need to set some points (to draw building footprint polygons) by following the contours of houses on sat/aerial-images (which the OSM editor automatically gives you as a background - definitely in the USA), give the polygon some attributes (so OSM and tools like world2xplane know its a house) and thats it (and you can move on to the next house). You will barely need more than a minute per house .... And no texturing or anything like that to do! That will be done by tools like world2xplane (which automatically pops in the right facades or objects ...which have been contributed by tech-savy community members  :wink:  ).

 

So ... well, its an interesting aspect I see here every now or then. There are a few users, who like to say "take my money and give me cool stuff" (I don't want to care for anything else etc. ... which is understandable) ... and don't waste time one community tinkering. Whereas there are also a lot of users, who are exactly the opposite ... "I don't want to spend money I don't need to ... just give me lots of ways to customize / contribute myself". And the latter are the ones who do improve OSM, contribute to world2xplane ... and make things happen which the guys from the first group can and will enjoy at some point in time too B)! And the more users contribute (and the good thing - I repeat myself - is, that they don't need to be tech-savy, as there are ways where you can contribute without the need to be!), the faster cool things can happen which everyone can enjoy ---> thats what we call a "community".

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

It sounds like you hit your video card's ram limit which would explain such a drop in FPS.

Next time you change your GPU Mitch, I would go for at least 3-4Gb video ram.

Thanks for the advice, and yes...I will. In fact, I hope that my next card will allow me to go to either 6-8 GB's of on-board.....

 

With the latest EVGA Precisioin X (16) over-clock management...downloaded this morning, I was able to tweak my GTX680 to give me 45 pretty steady FPS!!!  So, this card gives me a good supply of FPS...but, as you have pointed out...in XPX.30...I am saturating the on-board memory...and increasing that, would be my main impetus to go beyond my present card.  I'll sit in the bush awhile...and see what nVivia cooks up, in about 6 months from now...and what price points we are at.  I would like to seem something ah..er.. slightly more....er....'Divorce Proof'.......   :ph34r:

Well, I think one needs to put this in the right light: editing OSM is very very very far from tech-savy-ness ... its easier than taking a piece of paper and sketch a picture. Nowadays you just need a web browser, a few hours of time (ok, this is something many of us don't have) and thats it. You only need to set some points (to draw building footprint polygons) by following the contours of houses on sat/aerial-images (which the OSM editor automatically gives you as a background - definitely in the USA), give the polygon some attributes (so OSM and tools like world2xplane know its a house) and thats it (and you can move on to the next house). You will barely need more than a minute per house .... And no texturing or anything like that to do! That will be done by tools like world2xplane (which automatically pops in the right facades or objects ...which have been contributed by tech-savy community members  :wink:  ).

 

So ... well, its an interesting aspect I see here every now or then. There are a few users, who like to say "take my money and give me cool stuff" (I don't want to care for anything else etc. ... which is understandable) ... and don't waste time one community tinkering. Whereas there are also a lot of users, who are exactly the opposite ... "I don't want to spend money I don't need to ... just give me lots of ways to customize / contribute myself". And the latter are the ones who do improve OSM, contribute to world2xplane ... and make things happen which the guys from the first group can and will enjoy at some point in time too B)! And the more users contribute (and the good thing - I repeat myself - is, that they don't need to be tech-savy, as there are ways where you can contribute without the need to be!), the faster cool things can happen which everyone can enjoy ---> thats what we call a "community".

All points taken, Andras.  Perhaps this winter, I'll try my hand at this sort of thing...

 

Cheers,

 

Mitch

[Kuragiman 227]

I re-installed XPX and was happy with the improvements I saw with 10.30.  I was getting much better frames though now suffering from frame stuttering.   I thought about getting my hands dirty and trying to smooth all this out then I came to the realization that XPX is catered to European flyers.   A majority of the add-ons and even the freeware scenery is all UK/Europe stuff.  United States is very much neglected in this simulator, from the OSM to the Photoreal textures.  We do have an HD Mesh available for my neck of the woods which is nice but there is like 1 airport (KBOS) and a few cities that got some treatment in all of the US  There is OSM data available for the US but I don't think it is nearly as complete as Europe.  Everything else is left to random autogen.

 

As I have no desire to fly in that part of the world this makes XPX very limiting to me as a viable flight sim platform.   

 

Sure does look pretty though!   That sexy night lighting!   Oh if it were so easily achieved in FSX/P3D

[N1G 88]

Not using HDR at the moment, because I am fiddling with the bloom settings. I had been lowering a couple of the values to reduce the bloom but you have to raise the value LOL. I guess the programmer was a comedian I guess.  So the HDR does take it's toll but not that much on my system. It is so beautiful flying at dusk and do an approach and touch down has a feel to it. I cannot explain it, but the feeling is completely different then the FSX engine. 

 

Bob

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Not using HDR at the moment, because I am fiddling with the bloom settings. I had been lowering a couple of the values to reduce the bloom but you have to raise the value LOL. I guess the programmer was a comedian I guess.  So the HDR does take it's toll but not that much on my system. It is so beautiful flying at dusk and do an approach and touch down has a feel to it. I cannot explain it, but the feeling is completely different then the FSX engine. 

 

Bob

"Oh...you don't have to explain it....at least to a fellow XPX user....all the 'explanation' is right there, at Dusk, or Night......in the approach to the numbers...".

 

"Oh yeah.....".

 

 

I came to the realization that XPX is catered to European flyers.

------------------------------------------------------------

 

Sadly, I agree that this is the case.  You take off from most anywhere in Europe...especially Switzerland..., and your eyes water...

 

You take off out of Michigan..., and your eyes water for a very different reason....

 

That's why I would LOVE to see a company such as ORBX, in one offering, take care uniformly, of the whole planet.  If I had, using the XP engine...the scenery I had in my early morning flight out of P3D (Sedona, Arizona)....it would be the best-of-the-best in texture and engine marriage.  I am convinced, that the XPX 64 bit engine, isn't much off idle...with present OSM and stock or custom library auto-texture, and that is a shame... 

[tonywob 4,770]

I don't want to spend money I don't need to ... just give me lots of ways to customize / contribute myself

 

This is exactly the sort of crowd I'm trying to get to (I wish I could find more of them :smile: ). Customising and adding to OSM is so easy and rewarding that I'm really surprised the community here aren't doing more. Once you get used to editing OSM, using something like JOSM or the ID browser editor (No need to install anything), you can add an entire village in under an hour or so (With good photo imagery), and the next day build the scenery yourself and see that village in high detail inside X-Plane. There's nothing quite like flying low-and-slow over your own village/town and recognising everything.

 

Personally, I think people will be waiting along time for a company like ORBX to come along and map your town or village in FSX/P3D. I don't have much free-time amongst real-life but still find time to edit OSM every week, whether it be 15 mins during a coffee break or when I have an hour or so spare which I'd normally spend browsing rubbish on Youtube. 

 

 

 

 

A majority of the add-ons and even the freeware scenery is all UK/Europe stuff.  United States is very much neglected in this simulator, from the OSM to the Photoreal textures

 

This is true somewhat, but then again, remember that X-Plane out of the box is themed and suited to the US only (I'm working on a way at the moment to get rid of the US style roads in Europe). The main reason I started my own project is because my town inside X-Plane looked like a small US city, and I'm sure this motivates others. But, alone in the US, OSM has improved a lot this year, and it will only get better. I'd guess it's no surprise to people in Europe why Europeans are creating their own scenery and texture modifications.

 

Also, just to add, the tools that Simheaven uses for photoscenery and buildings are easily/freely available (World2XP/OSM2X{ is free, and G2XPL for photoscenery is available for a small donation). If you really want to, you could build similar scenery for the US. I guess Pilotbalu (Admin at Simheaven) doesn't want to distribute scenery for the US, but if someone has enough server space or motivation, they could do the same.