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crashbar

BARO/RADIO mins.

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Hello guys........new to the PMDG family and still learning about this wonderful thing called flight so please bare with me if my question seems redundant and yes, I have tried to research my question online but am unable to find an answer that my brain can understand so here goes.  I have purchased both the 737 and 777 for FSX, but my question is with the 737.  In tutorial 1 on approach I set landing minimums in the EFIS panel from BARO to RADIO and RADIO altitude set to 100.  From what I understand this is the proper procedure for a CAT II landing for ILS approaches.

 

In tutorial 2 the MINS knob is on BARO and BARO dialed to 3700ft, the min transition.  The MINS knob is never switched to RADIO which from what what I understand is required for CAT II landing.  So in this tutrial to LOWI, this is a CAT I landing?  A CAT I from what I understand is used for (most) small aviation planes and for when you are doing a visual approach.  Is this all correct?

 

Also one more question about using the STD button on the BARRO knob. Do I switch from flight altitude to flight levels at transition altitude on takeoff.........then switch from flight levels to flight instruments at T/D on descent?

 

Any help on this is GREATLY appreciated and I can't say enough how impressed I am with PMDG planes.......thanks for your time, crashbar.

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From what I understand this is the proper procedure for a CAT II landing for ILS approaches.

 

Correct.

 

 

 


So in this tutrial to LOWI, this is a CAT I landing?

 

If you have the MINS set to baro that would be a visual (with an ILS as a backup), ILS CAT I landing. a non-ILS approach or a circle-to-land approach. I do not think LOWI has an ILS CAT II/III approach.

 

 

 


A CAT I from what I understand is used for (most) small aviation planes and for when you are doing a visual approach

 

I believe Delta requires its pilots to tune to an ILS if at all possible during night visual approaches at least (that may include other approaches during daylight operations). So just not limited to small airplanes.

 

 


Do I switch from flight altitude to flight levels at transition altitude on takeoff.........then switch from flight levels to flight instruments at T/D on descent?

 

Switch to STD at the transition altitude (18000 in the US and Canada). Switch to the local altimeter setting at the transition level (may be 1000 feet above the transition altitude).

 

By the way, if you could please sign your posts with your full name. PMDG requires it or they may delete your posts.

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CAT I-IIIc are categories for instrument landings. As far as I remember, tutorial 2 includes an LDA approach to runway 26 with the described circle to land at runway 8. So that's basically a visual landing, not an instrument. Even the largest of aircraft can't do a CAT I, II or III landing if the airport is not equiped to allow it.

 

Try look at this chart

http://charts.vacc-austria.org/LOWI/LOWI_Approach_Visual%20Approach_25082013.pdf

 

As you can see the minimum for an aircraft capable of doing a 5% climb in case of a go-around is 3700 ft. For landing minima always refer to the approach charts.

 

Transition Altitude is the altitude where you would switch from local altimeter settings to standard 1013/29.92. The transition altitude is usually a fixed altitude also found in airport maps. Some contries such as US has a fixed transition altitude at 18000 ft (US) or some other altitude. Some contries has different transition altitude for different airports.

 

Transition level is the flightlevel where, in a descent, you would switch from standard to local altimeter settings. Transition level might be fixed at some airports and in some countries. But they can also change with local weather. The idea is to be sure to have enough space between transition altitude and transition level to avoid mid air collisions due to overlapping altitudes.

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I think the hardest thing for someone like me who is diving into the "REAL GUTS" of aviation, but have a sickness for perfection is all the equipment/instrument redundancy's and amount of and choices available at one time.  This aircraft has much more flexibility than I ever realized, which was something I did not expect with an aircraft this complex. I have a much better understanding now and have found your answers very helpful, thank you.  I'm really enjoying the challenge of learning and properly operating this beautiful plane, I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future and appreciate everyone's patience.  See you up in the air!

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So is it MINS>RADIO for CAT II and MINS>BARO for visual landing such as in tutorial#2(LOWI).  It seems to me that it is airport dependant and I need to refer to charts, but if it is airport dependant I would assume(I know scarry word) that a CAT II would be chosen over the other for this type of aircraft if available.  Is this correct?

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forum.avsim.net/topic/380875-mins-knob-radio-and-baro/

 

Thank you guys.  Appears this has been answered and very well I might add.  Thanks again

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More help -

 

http://www.ivao.be/sites/ivaobefiles/info_pdf/seminarie1006_precisionapproaches.pdf

That link will explain alot about your questions. Your like me want to know everything BUT do read the FCTM and FCOM. Try and get a company FCOM because there you will find alot more about the procedure like there policy and the way of doing things. The FCOM you get with the PMDG leaves alot of it open for company ways

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So is it MINS>RADIO for CAT II and MINS>BARO for visual landing such as in tutorial#2(LOWI).  It seems to me that it is airport dependant and I need to refer to charts, but if it is airport dependant I would assume(I know scarry word) that a CAT II would be chosen over the other for this type of aircraft if available.  Is this correct?

 

First: visual approaches have no minimums.  Ever.  A visual approach requires you to have the field in sight.  Minimums (for approaches) are altitudes that must be maintained (or at which a decision must be made) unless you have a visual on the field.  If I'm on an ILS approach and pop out of the clouds at 1000' AGL, I don't need to wait until the mins to make the call: I have a visual - the instrument approach is over.*

 

And just to clarify for anyone who doesn't jump over to the link you specified, there is no regulatory formula to the use of either (FAA), though the general rule of thumb is as follows:

  • If the chart specifies RA (radio altitude) in the minimums section, radio altimeter is to be used (radio mins); otherwise
  • Use baro

For the record, my posts in the other thread were simply to get people to think about what they know about the approaches: there's no regulatory requirement to use either radio or baro, though you'd be potentially putting yourself in harms way for using one over the other.  As you've noted here, most people think aviation is rigid and full of thou shalt, when it's definitely not.  Sure, there are many cases where the regs and procedures are rigid, but aviation is very full of discretion.

 

 

 

* Technically it isn't fully over unless you've been re-cleared for the visual.  If something were to happen and you had to go around, you would execute the published missed for the approach you were flying.  With a ceiling of 1000' AGL, this would be highly unlikely, but remember that aviation procedure is predicated on things going horribly wrong.  As an example, a controller has to state the reason he or she is putting you on a vector just in case there were a communication failure thereafter: "United 442, turn left heading 090, vector for ILS Runway 1R approach."  If there were a radio failure thereafter, the pilot may continue the approach without hearing a specific clearance because of AVEF: Assigned > Vectored > Expected > Filed.  In this case, the pilot was being vectored to an approach.  If the radio were to fail, that pilot has implicit clearance to execute that approach and land.

 

...and now you have a bunch more information than you ever wanted.  :P

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Kyle I really apprteciate the time you took for the response.  It's exactly as I thought, airport dependant and all comes down to doing your homework and taking the time to plan correctly. I have purchased Navigrapgh and PFPX and they have made planning much easier.  Learning to read charts is coming slowly but I have managed to put a few flights together utilizing most techniques used in the tutorials that went very smoothly.  I have studied some of your video's and they were a tremendous help on understanding PFPX, TOPCAT ect..  From what I've learrned a successful flight is moslty about a good pre-flight plan and understanding your plane and its systems to help you be the most prepared for the unpredictabilities that weather can cause.  On that note, my brain is overloaded and time to take a break.  Thanks again Kyle and all for the reply's, extremely helpful, crashbar.

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I have studied some of your video's and they were a tremendous help on understanding PFPX, TOPCAT ect..  From what I've learrned a successful flight is moslty about a good pre-flight plan and understanding your plane and its systems to help you be the most prepared for the unpredictabilities that weather can cause.  On that note, my brain is overloaded and time to take a break.  Thanks again Kyle and all for the reply's, extremely helpful, crashbar.

 

Thanks for watching, and you're welcome.

 

Definitely take a break from time to time.  Let things sink in!

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For LOWI it is a visual approach from ABSAM for both rwy21 and circle to land rwy 08. That means if you can't see the field by ABSAM you must execute a missed approach immediately. A left turn with a minimum of 25deg bank at 155kts and the turn radius to not exceed 1,700 meters. Returning directly to ABSAM and then to be at RTT at 9,500ft. It's the missed approach that makes LOWI a difficult airport.

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For LOWI it is a visual approach from ABSAM for both rwy21 and circle to land rwy 08. That means if you can't see the field by ABSAM you must execute a missed approach immediately. A left turn with a minimum of 25deg bank at 155kts and the turn radius to not exceed 1,700 meters. Returning directly to ABSAM and then to be at RTT at 9,500ft. It's the missed approach that makes LOWI a difficult airport.

Definitely! I remember one time when I was doing the regular LOWW - LOWI flight and had to perform a missed aproach due to poor visibility (FSGRW ftw) - the terrain really makes you pay special attention to your maneuvers in that area. 

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