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jetblast

Two things I notice that are not realistic in fs2004

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Having flown in real world situations I can tell you that the altitude perception in fs2004 is not realistic or accurate

 

When ATC takes me down to 2,000 feet it looks more like im at 500 feet, only until you get up-to a higher altitude can you really not notice the difference, is there anyway in the cfg file to adjust the level to a more accurate perception?

 

Also, there is an error in fs2004, when flying aircraft and you extend the flaps, the motion of the plane is to sink, this is not accurate, when extending the flaps the plane should start to climb at first as you push the yoke down to counter act this. Once again, is there a way to adjust this in the cfg file?

 

Thanks again, look forward to any suggestions

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Iv been using 0.70 zoom of late

 

and yes I do like to use add-on aircraft, I would like to know what add-on aircraft incorporate the ballooning motion after flap extension.  Do you have a download link to a specific aircraft?

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When ATC takes me down to 2,000 feet it looks more like im at 500 feet,

 

AGL, ASL, radar?

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The blanket statement that all aircraft balloon when flaps are deployed is incorrect. That would actually be unrealistic.

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I didnt say all, but a good add-on will model it if its realistic.

Of course you didn't... but the OP did.

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The blanket statement that all aircraft balloon when flaps are deployed is incorrect. That would actually be unrealistic.

 

All I know is from real world experience, when I flew the C172, and the Piper Seneca, when the flaps are extended the plane will rise , this is a FACT, this is because you are increasing the size of the wing, and as the flaps extend they also  curve downwards,  Newtons law of motion, Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.

 

Hi.

 

Here's one free C-150 that rises slightly when flaps extend:

 

http://www.fs-tutorials.com/en/down_plane_C150_01.php

 

The modelling is generally very good - you can even fly banked crosswind landings and spin it, though preferably not at the same time.

 

D

Thanks Dave,

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The whole Flight Sim is now A Dinasour but has given countless hours of pleasure so please don`t knock it!

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Depends on where new center of lift is generated in relationship to the pitch axis and center of gravity.

There are REAL planes which exhibit a pitch-down attitude upon deploying the flaps.  I have witnessed this first-hand in full-motion simulators.

Actually had to explain the action to some of the instructors as they thought since deploying flaps always produce more lift, the aircraft should always initially "rise".

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Gwillmot explains it perfectly. Has nothing to do with Newton's laws.

 

Also, I didn't say that aircraft can't pitch up... I said that your blanket statement that all aircraft pitch up is incorrect.

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Gwillmot explains it perfectly. Has nothing to do with Newton's laws.

 

Also, I didn't say that aircraft can't pitch up... I said that your blanket statement that all aircraft pitch up is incorrect.

 

Newton's law does have a factor, this is why heavy aircraft extend the flaps on takeoff, increase wing size and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, increase wing extensions (flaps) produces more lift, iv studied hundreds of hours and have 800 hours as a commercial pilot, no pilot knows everything of course, but what im saying is that fs 2004 got this wrong, in general there should be more of a pitch up attitude when the flaps are extended. Warp D Im interested in what type of License and hours you currently have in aircraft. I dont like confrontation, im not trying to be funny, its just I take aviation including fs very seriously , I have alot of passion for it

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Let me get this straight... you're here trashing 10+ year old, home-entertainment, flight simulator software because it's got some glitches such as oversized scenery and not-entirely-accurate flight physics?  Welcome to 2004!  We've missed you.  We're so glad that we've finally got someone of your caliber to put us straight.

 

You don't like confrontation? Then don't be so confrontational and stop whining about obsolete software...

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Newtons law of motion, Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.

 

Well, I have to admit that it's been a few years since I received my degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering from Purdue University, BUT I don't recall Newton's Third Law of Motion being applied to aerodynamics.  We always stuck with Lift, Gravity, Thrust and Drag ... along with moments created by forces applied to/around the center of gravity and the three flight axis.  I DO recall a demonstration in Physics class that involved bumper cars and Newton's Third Law.  Does that apply here?  Just Say'n.

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Does that apply here?

 

It may do. It depends whether you side with Bernouille (static v. dynamic pressure) or Newton (throw air down & your plane moves up). Having done some simple maths on the length of upper & lower surfaces, and then, on the flip side, considered aerofoils symmetrical abouth the chord I'm inclined to side with...

 

... both.

 

But it's a nasty wormcan regardless, as bad as religion or politics for engendering flamewars.

 

D

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Newton's Third Law can't be applied because the actual mass of the flaps is so insignificant as to have no meaning when compared against the aircraft's overall mass. The only thing that affects whether an aircraft will pitch up or pitch down is how the flaps move the center of lift with relation to the center of gravity at the moment of deployment. No more, no less.

 

As for who has what credentials... really???? This is the internet... where people make up stuff all the time, especially credentials. LOL

 

Who/what I am is simple: I create training simulations for people to learn how to fly aircraft from a simple Cessna 172 to a Cessna CJ1+ or a King Air 350i, just to name a few. It's my job to learn the aircraft inside and out and then reproduce it in high fidelity in a simulated environment for training certification by the FAA. If I had a dollar for every time a type-rated pilot told me how something worked on their aircraft and was proven wrong, I'd be a multi-millionaire.

 

Is that enough credentials for you?

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…pass me the popcorn.  :Nerd:

 

Would you like butter on your popcorn, sir?  That will be $6.50.  Please take your seat and welcome to the Theater of Drama and Flight.  You may use your tray table in front of you until otherwise instructed not to do so.

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Depends on where new center of lift is generated in relationship to the pitch axis and center of gravity.

There are REAL planes which exhibit a pitch-down attitude upon deploying the flaps.  I have witnessed this first-hand in full-motion simulators.

Actually had to explain the action to some of the instructors as they thought since deploying flaps always produce more lift, the aircraft should always initially "rise".

 

 

Yes,   

 

For example the older hershey bar cherokee will pitch down on flap deployment while the newer tapered wing cherokee will pitch up.  

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Let me get this straight... you're here trashing 10+ year old, home-entertainment, flight simulator software because it's got some glitches such as oversized scenery and not-entirely-accurate flight physics?  Welcome to 2004!  We've missed you.  We're so glad that we've finally got someone of your caliber to put us straight.

 

You don't like confrontation? Then don't be so confrontational and stop whining about obsolete software...

 

Why are you getting so fluster over my criticism of fs2004? Im just trying to find a solution to an issue that would make my fs2004 experience more realistic.When you fly in real world situations you try to find almost the exact environment in fs. I guess if I had praised fs2004 I wouldn't be receiving any replies. But I start telling armchair simmers  wanna be real pilots what its like to be in a real cockpit, and I get hell to pay for, typical...

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Ed - sorry, it was that old crossed-purposes thing again. I guess you are thinking of the unlikelihood of a plane pitching forward as flaps slide backwards while I was thinking of extra air being deflected downward causing a larger upward reaction in the plane...

 

So, yes, a reaction to just the movement of the flaps is a bit unlikely. Just as well really or we'd all end up on our noses whenever we tested flaps on the ground.

 

As far as the air thing goes, can anyone illuminate my ignorance? It's clear that if a plane's CoL is aft of its CoG then a sudden increase in lift will cause a nose-down movement requiring yet more elevator input but does that situation ever occur? Can anyone give an example?

 

D

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But I start telling armchair simmers  wanna be real pilots what its like to be in a real cockpit, and I get hell to pay for, typical...

 

By the time you wrote this, you only had 9 posts in Avsim in your 7 days since your registration. What a way to debut in the community! you're on your way to become Member of the Month if you keep it up!  <_<

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It's clear that if a plane's CoL is aft of its CoG then a sudden increase in lift will cause a nose-down movement requiring yet more elevator input but does that situation ever occur? Can anyone give an example?

 

Ah ...... you been reading the replies?

Real example - Dassault Falcon 7X business jet ........ at least in full-motion simulator at flight academy.  Even discussed it with the flight instructors.  Placed in official training documentation approved by FAA.

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Ah ...... you been reading the replies?

 

Doh! No... just came back to my PC from a teabreak and launched straight in!

 

Take me out to the pasture.

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Ed - sorry, it was that old crossed-purposes thing again. I guess you are thinking of the unlikelihood of a plane pitching forward as flaps slide backwards while I was thinking of extra air being deflected downward causing a larger upward reaction in the plane...

 

So, yes, a reaction to just the movement of the flaps is a bit unlikely. Just as well really or we'd all end up on our noses whenever we tested flaps on the ground.

 

As far as the air thing goes, can anyone illuminate my ignorance? It's clear that if a plane's CoL is aft of its CoG then a sudden increase in lift will cause a nose-down movement requiring yet more elevator input but does that situation ever occur? Can anyone give an example?

 

D

 

''So, yes, a reaction to just the movement of the flaps is a bit unlikely. Just as well really or we'd all end up on our noses whenever we tested flaps on the ground.''

 

Not sure if your joking or not....

 

But ill tell you this, while coming into approach for landing or practicing stalls with flaps down, when the flaps are extended, I have to push pretty hard down on the yoke to get the nose to come down, and that was with the plane trimmed correctly . Hope you can appreciate that im just telling you this from my own experience flying 800 hours. If there is a pilot who has flown in a Piper warrior or Cessna 172 and has not had this experience id love to hear from you on here

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Hello JetBlast, In the ten years that this wonderful sim has been out very clever simmers have been making this sim far better than anyone ever thought possible. (a classic example is polygon limit for aircraft). What I mean is a def FS9 is not that inspiring….a pimped up FS9.5 however is …is….is ….I just love it! :wub:

 

Altitude/distance perception is usually adjusted by zoom in the panel cfg.

 

For your flaps you need to adjust your lift_scalar and/or pitch scalar in the flaps section of your aircraft cfg.

 

FWIW The two things I noticed that nothing could be done about were sloping runways and cloud shadows.

 

FSX did not address either of these.

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