New GeForce drivers

[Cruachan 705]

Are you planting an idea, or do you have real information? Like I said, last I heard was the SLI ball was in nVidia's hands.

Cheers, Rob.

Oh I do wish! No, just idle conjecture along with every other ill-informed opinion expressed in this thread..LOL

 

Frankly, I'm growing more angry about this matter with each passing day. The problem is being caused by a lack of courtesy shown to their customers by both LM and NVIDIA. You can say what you like, but the fact is that the level of support currently being offered by The P3D Development Team is woeful. They have even managed to muck up their website with a so-called Forum Software 'upgrade'. Now we have broken links, missing posts, duplicated posts and an unattractive presentation which, frankly, beggars belief. What on earth are they doing? Yes, the previous version could be a tad slow, but at least it was consistent and reliable. I am straying from topic.

 

All this talk about commercial pressures, business models, lack of clout, etc. is just so much groundless speculation.

 

The facts, as I see them, are these:

 

1. LM raised our expectations several versions ago that SLI would soon become a reality. On the back of this assurance many of us invested in a second card believing that this would give us greater overhead driving better performance and visuals.

 

2. For some time now LM have advised us that "we are working with NVIDIA and the ball is in their court". This statement would seem to imply that either LM have now washed their hands of this matter and have chosen to renage on their customers or, for whatever reason, they genuinely are powerless to push things forward. The latter does seem very unlikely unless, like ACES before them, the P3D Development Team lack the necessary clout to persuade NVIDIA to do the right thing. Either way the situation is very unsatisfactory and is certainly not unacceptable.

 

3. NVIDIA may indeed be driven by that much maligned (is he kidding?) entity often referred to as the 'bean counter'' but history has shown that, rightly or wrongly, they do play a very prominent (cut throat?) role in current and future commercial planning. Again, does the name ACES ring any bells? Flight Simulator may have been niche but it was, historically, always regarded as a showcase product which, while imperfect, exemplified the aspirations of the parent Company. I'll wager Microsoft are regretting that decision, but much has happened since and it is now too late.

 

4. Without any shadow of doubt the Prepar3D Development Team have done a superb job In producing a wonderful simulation which is stable and beautiful to behold. Yet Prepar3D progress is being hampered by an apparent lack of initiative and desire to persuade NVIDIA to create a much needed SLI profile. Yes, their user base may not be sufficiently large to command NVIDIA's attention, but that shouldn't matter. Prepar3D is an exceptional case. As a product which will certainly outlive most if not ALL of the ephemeral gaming software out there it is deserving of special attention without any short sighted financial considerations getting in the way.

 

There, I've said my piece. My gut feeling is that we should, as a community, be ignoring all the lame excuses and, instead, start knocking heads. LM and NVIDIA need to be dragged together by the metaphorical scruff of their necks and 'encouraged' to get on with it without any further pointless prevarication.

 

Perhaps, Rob, you might consider pointing LM to this thread. Then, perhaps they might begin to understand the depth of feeling being expressed about this issue. Probably pointless posting on the P3D forums as there is little evidence these days that they are actually monitoring posts as, for months now, they have responded only rarely with first hand support.

 

Please try not to view this post negatively. Instead this should be seen as one end user's passionate desire for the success of P3D, and its ongoing development, expressed in the strongest possible terms. We have been tip-toeing around this issue for far too long fearful of upsetting either party. If we don't start upping the ante how else are we going to stimulate any action?!

 

Regards,

Mike

[JLSeagull 191]

Bravo Sir. A thoroughly sensible and well-reasoned statement. I wonder if it will elicit a similar response from the said parties?

[Glynn 405]

 

 

Given that Dovetail recently released sales information that indicated FSX sold 280,000 copies

 

Rob,

That figure is for one year only (2007) , given that for the years 2006 and 2007 FSX was in the top 10 PC gaming titles in USA sales, I would say that once you factor in the European sales and the fact that the title has been on sale for a further seven years the figure is much higher.

Microsoft did not stay in the Flightsim buisness for 25 years on the back of 280,000K PA sales figures.

[airlinejets 709]

Bravo Sir. A thoroughly sensible and well-reasoned statement. I wonder if it will elicit a similar response from the said parties?

Are you serious?

 

None of the statements are based on fact. They're pure conjecture, hearsay and personal opinion.

 

I think P3D's latest build is very good. I would hope P3D is working on 64 bit technology well before any SLI implementation.

 

*On a side note, just to put this into perspective (since people are throwing numbers around), Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed has sold in excess of 73 million copies! Numbers are what drive the industry, not our personal opinions.

 

Now, back on topic please. Have you installed the new drivers and have you noted any improvements?

[Slayer 190]

Please...if it were numbers of video games sold only then there would be no such thing as CUDA etc. How many CAD programs do you think are sold  - even if it's for a several thousand dollar Tesla card, exactly how many of those cards do you think they really sell? Yet there is all kinds of driver support and SDK's . They probably make more on Titan sales than those...a flight simulator more falls into the category of those types of apps even though it uses nearly all gaming tech to achieve that end.

[AVSIM Admin 4]

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[gfd 15]

Defending NVIDIA's position is hardly going to get us where we need to be.

 

I'm certainly not defending Nvidia's position. I dislike it intensely. However, their prime objective is to satisfy the needs of their market, so as to maximize the return to their shareholders; not make flight sim enthusiasts happy.

 

I love this hobby. But it is quite expensive relative to gaming. Also, unlike gaming which is escape, this is a push towards more realism. Kind of a bit like work...eh? I don't ever see us producing big numbers in terms of unit sales. Without that, we aren't going to jump to the front of the NV queue. If we do, someone at Nvidia will get fired.

 

I really don't like this. It's math. I think that the answer lies with talented developers such as Rob, and others in our segment, taking advantage of DX12. I did a little reading on that. It appears P3D could be even less CPU bound with the coming of Windows 10. Of course that brings us around to GPU horsepower again. Vicious. On the other hand, I suspect an overclocked GTX980 with 8 gig of memory will take very good care of P3D.

 

Finally (ah...I hear a virtual sigh of relief) I think we have a much larger problem with VAS. We all bought supercharged hardware to run the simulator at high settings, with tons of scenery, while controlling aircraft that are almost real life; without creating a slide show. What did that get us? OOOOOOM.

 

So the hardware has caught the software. I wonder if performance is the issue any longer. What's a bit of shimmering and the odd micro-stutter, compared to having to jump through hoops to complete a flight? Now, we have to save flights and reload them; unload scenery, turn down settings, avoid high detail textures and aircraft paints; yadda, yadda, yadda. Kinda defeats the purpose of all that fancy, high priced gear we purchsed so that we could run more scenery, turn up settings, fly sophisticated aircraft, yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

It drips of irony.

 

Maybe we need to start clamouring very loudly for better memory management immediately and 64 bit with as little delay as possible. Easy to say I realize. I don't have to do it. I suspect the hardware will continue to get more powerful. The simulator is now the bottleneck. Not the hardware or the graphics driver.

 

I hope you'll all forgive the long post. Please feel free to jump in and beat the h--l out of me if you disagree.

[Cruachan 705]

Are you serious?

 

1. None of the statements are based on fact.

 

2. I think P3D's latest build is very good. I would hope P3D is working on 64 bit technology well before any SLI implementation.

 

3. *On a side note, just to put this into perspective (since people are throwing numbers around), Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed has sold in excess of 73 million copies! Numbers are what drive the industry, not our personal opinions.

 

4. Now, back on topic please. Have you installed the new drivers and have you noted any improvements?

Hi Michel,

 

1. Care to elaborate?

 

2. Couldn't agree more. However, SLI implementation is doable NOW whereas 64bit isn't about to happen anytime soon. Same could be said for DirectX 12/Windows 10 with all the implications they will have for yet more hardware upgrades and expenditure. We should be allowed to exploit to the full what is currently available. I really can't imagine that the time and resources involved would preclude this from happening. If it meant the temporary diversion of manpower in possession of the necessary skill sets, who in the gaming world is likely to notice? Even if they did, why should that matter when they have had it all their own way for so long? Sales of NVIDIA based GPUs are unlikely to be affected. In any case, with a period of concentrated effort I very much doubt that it would take an inordinately long time to achieve and once it's done, it's done and all our virtual lives can return to normal. Everyone is happy!

 

3. Yes, true and also a sad indictment of humanity's persistent appetite for violent behaviour, exciting though it may be be when acted out in the virtual world.

 

4. Yes, I've installed the latest drivers (344.60) successfully in my M18x Notebook and performance seems much about the same. It's certainly no worse and no issues have been encountered so far.

 

Mike

[airlinejets 709]

 

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Hi Mike,

 

It's just that I think nVidia's actions or lack of, are more speculation than fact. No harm meant... :wink:

[Cruachan 705]

Hi Michel,

 

Okay, understood. They never learn, do they? They say silence is golden, but it couldn't be further from the truth when, perhaps inevitably, it encourages threads such as these to appear. I sometimes wonder why outfits like NVIDIA and LM have discussion forums when they rarely bother to participate. Instead there is a reliance on the efforts of unpaid volunteers some of whom must spend hours each week doing the work for them. Certainly, from their standpoint, one can understand the value of such a policy, but what do we experience in return? Frustration mostly. Such an attitude is unlikely to foster a spirit of future cooperation and continuing respect between the business and their client.

 

Regards,

Mike

[gfd 15]

But is it really all that bad? I'm pretty tickled that I can fire up my shiny new Aerosoft A319 at FSDreamTeam CYVR with Orbx PNW active, DSR on, 4 AA samples in P3D, with 20 FPS at the gate. What does that get me? Very smooth performance with virtually no jaggies.

 

What are we after here? If it's recognition, then I'm with you guys. We are getting a bit of a shaft. But shouldn't we be concerned about the fact that the sim is having difficulty with VAS usage? Cause I have to say that until I get the ding of OOM from FSUIPC, my screen looks better with the 340 series of nVidia drivers than it ever did.

[Cruachan 705]

But is it really all that bad? I'm pretty tickled that I can fire up my shiny new Aerosoft A319 at FSDreamTeam CYVR with Orbx PNW active, DSR on, 4 AA samples in P3D, with 20 FPS at the gate. What does that get me? Very smooth performance with virtually no jaggies.

 

What are we after here? If it's recognition, then I'm with you guys. We are getting a bit of a shaft. But shouldn't we be concerned about the fact that the sim is having difficulty with VAS usage? Cause I have to say that until I get the ding of OOM from FSUIPC, my screen looks better with the 340 series of nVidia drivers than it ever did.

Hi Graham,

 

No, of course it isn't that bad. In fact it is very good, mostly. However I bet your sitting with a GPU many times more potent than the 2xGTX580Ms in my M18x Notebook. I ordered this spec on the strength of an SLI promise which has yet to be fulfilled. Yes, I know, I hear the cries of 'well, you should have built another desktop system which is far more easily upgraded than a Notebook'. Correct, however that was my choice and it really hasn't disappointed. Future proofing with those 2 GPUs running in SLI has paid off big time except where P3D is concerned. With one GPU I get pretty decent, largely stutter-free performance with impressive visuals which includes cloud shadows. Anisotropic filtering set at 16x, MSAA 4 samples and FXAA off. Frame rates at Langley AFB vary from 20+ to the mid 30s in the F22-Raptor. Sliders are generally set conservatively, but nothing below default other than cloud reflections which are turned off.

 

Generally I am happy with what I have but the frustration comes from the knowledge that P3D could be better were it not for the fact that NVIDIA are currently denying me the opportunity to exploit my hardware to the full. I am looking for a little more headroom, others with twin GPUs may have other aspirations. Whatever our reasons they are perfectly legitimate and NVIDIA needs to be persuaded to do the right thing by us.

 

Regards,

Mike

[Johnny19 344]

Drivers 344.65 are out and i installed them just for the heck of it, to me it seems that it made situation worse performance wise in P3D and FSX, and for sure it made it worse in Shadow of Mordor game.

[dgraham1284 92]

Drivers 344.65 are out and i installed them just for the heck of it, to me it seems that it made situation worse performance wise in P3D and FSX, and for sure it made it worse in Shadow of Mordor game.

 

 

Did you see what SLI profile was included in this driver release??? Drum roll.... Train Simulator 2015!?!?! The ......

[Matthijs 79]

344.65 is performing great, no problems at all.

Slightly better performance with this build.