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raymar

Saratoga II TC looks and flies great.

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I installed it around noon today and have been flying and checking out the details. Looking good so far.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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Didn't even know they had a Saratoga to offer. Thanks for the HU.

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I love this aircraft at 75% 29/24 I'm getting 158kts GS

I like 33/24 for 80%, Gas is cheap and overhauls are free in the simulator.

 

Ray

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Hi! Compared with PA34 V of Carenado .......... wich is better? of course i know that one is single and the other is twin, but speak to the FDE .... how it is?

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Robert

 

Both are very good. The two share a lot of instuments and such. Looks and feel are almost the same just like in the real world versions.

 

I personally like the twin a little better for the flying but I like the big new GTN750 in the Saratoga panel. It makes a world of difference.

FDE are very good for both. My Seneca V will not climb on a single engine but that will probably be fixed soon.

 

I think the sound is weak on the Saratoga TC and am trying to get an add on sound set to test for the review.

 

Ray

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1. I just discovered the Weight and Balance does not work. The weights are calculated but the CG is on the nose all the time. I notified Support.

 

2. A premium Sound Pack specifically for the Saratoga TC is in work and I expect a beta copy in a day or so to test for the review.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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I'd probably buy a new sound pack - how are the ArezOne sets?  They want about $12 for a set?

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Ray,

 

Which company is making the premium sounds for the Saratoga TC?   I know Synchro-Soft released the C207 premium sounds right after the Alabeo 207 was released.

 

Mike

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What's wrong with the sounds? Are Alabeo/Carenado on the wrong track with using the "nc headphones on" sets or is there something more severe?

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I am not a sound expert, but, I do know what I like and don't like and the released sound package is quite weak in many areas. This is a big 6 cyl TIO-540-AH1A 300hp Lycoming engine and should have some deep throaty sounds among other things. This was a new engine designation for the 1999 model when the Saratoga II TC was introduced. This was the Saratoga II HP model (from 1993/94) fitted with an intercooled turbocharger.

 

The base IO-540 is the big workhorse Lycoming that is used in many Cessnas like the 182, 206 and many others. The hp varies greatly so the dashed numbers are important and whether is has a 2-bladed or 3-bladed prop will affect the sounds. There must be 30 or more models of the O-540 Lycoming. Just about every airplane company has used one or more over the years. The O-541 is the same engine with some sort of directly installed accessory, like in the Beechcraft line.

 

Interestingly the Piper Seneca V has Continental 220 hp engines. Go figure.

 

It is surprising to me that Piper even chose the big Lycoming since it is owned by Textron, which was Cessna at the time. Hard times makes for some strange bedfellows, I suppose. Continental actually owned Piper for a few years. I guess Continental was the major creditor when Piper went under so that may explain how the engine company ended up owning the airplane manufacturer.

 

SkySong Soundworks is working on a new sound pack specific to the Saratoga TC.

 

An existing add on sound pack for the Piper Arrow is close - Lycoming TIO-360. Pickup about mid-way thru and compare the sounds to the existing Alabeo Saratoga TC sounds.

 

You can listen to a demo at FSPilotShot.com

 

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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What's wrong with the sounds? Are Alabeo/Carenado on the wrong track with using the "nc headphones on" sets or is there something more severe?

 

It's just bland... sounds default-ish - interior is muddled.  It's like they skimped on sounds since its Alabeo (which used to be 20 bucks now we're at 30)

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It's actually a TIO-540 I don't know what version of the TIO-540 it is

Yes, the T is for Turbocharged and the I is for Fuel Injected. The base O is for the normally aspirated engine. The 540 is the Cubic Inch displacement.

 

Ray

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What's wrong with the sounds? Are Alabeo/Carenado on the wrong track with using the "nc headphones on" sets or is there something more severe?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the sound package. Sounds are hard to explain, especially in a simulation, but, the more time you spend around the real world airplanes the more you tend to remember the sounds and not very many $30 - $40 add ons come even close to simulating reality.

 

That is not to say that many, maybe most sim pilots, don't care that much about that last 20% or maybe the last 5% improvement. The payback is great if that is what you are seeking.

 

I suspect only a handful of users will opt for any add on for more professional sound.

 

You can read the section about the sounds and listen to two add on demos in the Carenado Seneca V review that is on the front page now.

 

Bottom line is if you are happy with any add ons sounds then move on and enjoy the flight. For instance, I prefer the Carenado sounds of the Carenado F33A Bonanza over most others, including premium add on sound packs. Their Baron B58 and Cessna 337H sounds are also good. It just seems that lately the sounds are weaker, muffled, toned-down or some description that is the opposite of rich, deep and throaty.

 

These big engines have big sounds, if that makes any sense.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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?.... since its Alabeo (which used to be 20 bucks now we're at 30)

This is the bit I'm battling with. A 50% increase. At $25 I'd have probably bought a couple more. $30? I know it's not really huge in the big picture, but it erks.

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This is the bit I'm battling with. A 50% increase. At $25 I'd have probably bought a couple more. $30? I know it's not really huge in the big picture, but it erks.

I know what you mean. My wife wanted me to enclose a small area under our carport to put her outside plants so they wouldn't freeze this Winter. Sure, no problem, maybe an 8 x 12 enclosed room with a light and portable heater for those really cold nights.

 

Here is comes. That $8 sheet of plywood is now $27-$29 per sheet, and those $1.20 2 x 4 studs are now $3.75 - $5.75 for 8 and 10 footers. Price increases for nails are even more. Ouch.

 

It erks me that her $10 plants need a $1,300 room to stay warm.

 

But, this is a lot of airplane for $30 bucks in the big scheme of things.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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Ray's right that it's very hard ot agree on 'realism' where sounds are concerned.  In some cases we like 'real' but in other areas we like something different but perhaps more dramatic or immersive.  For example, in most Piper aircraft in the real world, you won't hear any noise when you flick those cheap plastic rocker switches.... but I hate addons that come with no switch sounds - because there aren't too many other ambient sounds in the sim, it makes the environment seem dead.  So I love the subtle 'close mic' sound effects for switches etc thyat we get from A2A, RealAir (and in more recent times Carenado).

Where engines are concerned I have to say that I like what Carenado has done with the 'headphones on' effect. They started it with the PA46-350P Malibu, then the CT206H and most (not all) releases since then.  To my hears, it does sound more realistic - more what I'm used to from real GA cockpits.   But of course, it does mean you lose out on those nice deep, throaty, more externalized sounds.

One thing to bear in mind - do not assume that all addon sound packs are automatically of a higher standard to 'release' sounds.   For example (I have fed this back many, many times, directly to them), Syncro-Soft persist in using the same 'squeaky' roll sound in every GA sound pack they release.  It furst turned up in their C172 pack (demo available in AVSIM library) but now the squeeky wheels 'roll' sound appears on every GA release they do. They flap sounds are persistantly far too loud too (IMO).    But there core engine sounds are impressive - if a little more tuned to external engine sounds, even in the cockpit (which I hear in Ray's video above too BTW).

TSS produce by far the best addon sound packs IMO, but they do focus mainly on commercial aircraft and larger GA.    ArezOne, I fine very patchy; some great, some weak. 

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Guess I have to applaud to you folks for the detailed descriptions. I don't own the plane so far, so my short question on what could possibly be wrong on a fresh release had two things in mind.

 

First, receiving an actual description of the problem and, second, sparking some feedback on how customers like the nc headphone effect which might initially lead to less "wow" but, maybe, a better experience when running the plane for some hours in the cruise.

 

I felt like Craig explained it nicely and since he also noted

One thing to bear in mind - do not assume that all addon sound packs are automatically of a higher standard to 'release' sounds.

those ~12 bucks extra for sounds on a plane already being at 30 might be a step to think about.

 

Not arguing preferences but if I ask some of you in two weeks about the Alabeo Saratoga, some might in fact answer "oh, that plane, I own it but haven't flown her in a while", if you know what I mean. :P

 

Ryan mentioned somewhere that Alabeo/Carenado should consider making the headphone selectable like A2A does. I feel like that's a great idea and this does not mean that one has to produce two separate sound sets of course.

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I am planning on wrapping up the Avsim review by the end of the weekend if all goes well. Right now, it is a recommended buy for sure. I have the Arrow-28 Sound Set that I am testing and I also have an early version to evaluate of the Saratoga TC specific premium sound set.

 

Actually after testing 3 or 4 'Alias' sound sets I am warming up the the Alabeo standard release sounds. I must be getting mellow in my old age.

 

There is a lot to like about this one.

 

Ray

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Where engines are concerned I have to say that I like what Carenado has done with the 'headphones on' effect. They started it with the PA46-350P Malibu, then the CT206H and most (not all) releases since then. To my hears, it does sound more realistic - more what I'm used to from real GA cockpits. But of course, it does mean you lose out on those nice deep, throaty, more externalized sounds.

 

I'm afraid we'd have to agree to disagree on this one.  If what Carenado was doing with their recent planes were really a "headphone's on" thing, you sure wouldn't be able to listen to the sounds of the gyros spinning over the engine noise, or hear switch clicks that are louder than the engine, or... well, you get the idea.   You wouldn't hear most of that stuff at all.  Engines are typically started with headphones off anyway (or at least partly off the ears so you can hear what's happening, as engines don't start as easily IRL as they do in most sim planes), so you'd at least hear the starting sequence, and even with active noise cancelling 'phones, you still FEEL those low-end rumblings (and still hear a bit as well) in most poorly insulated poorly noise-attenuated, resonant GA cabins.

 

Carenado has attenuated the lows to the point that engines sound like a chain saw buzzing.  To my mind they don't sound like anything in the real world.  It seems like they've taken the easy road, going with sounds that could fit just about any plane "with headphones on" :-).  They've moved from sounds that, if not quite accurate were at least fun and involving in planes like their Bonanzas, the 337 or the 210, to sounds that bear little relation to reality, are almost completely non-involving and are simply bad.  If the Saratoga sounds are similar to what Carenado's been doing of late, I'm sure I'd have to explore the 3rd party sound world yet again.  And yes, that world can be disappointing as well.

 

That said, for me, Arezone soundsets are all that saved the Malibu (a plane I very much like) and the Seneca (a plane I really want to like, but can't quite get there yet).  Their sounds are still not perfect, but at least they give me a credible "I'm really in a GA cockpit" feeling - and GA cockpits are a place where I've spent many wonderful hours with no headphones, noise attenuating headphones and active noise-cancelling headphones.

 

Sounds aside, it seems like one of the biggest pieces of news is that the plane is the first Carenado/Alabeo to support integration with GTN750 and RXP530, while one of the biggest disappointments might be that the second GPS isn't upgradeable from the default to anything.

 

Scott

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Yes, the T is for Turbocharged and the I is for Fuel Injected. The base O is for the normally aspirated engine. The 540 is the Cubic Inch displacement.

 

Ray

Actually, the O stands for Opposed.

 

Don

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Actually, the O stands for Opposed.

 

Don

Thanks Don, all this time I thought is was for Outstanding.  B)

 

Ray

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