A2A C182 and P3D - Spectacular

[LAdamson 240]

Well, I've been a licensed pilot over 40 years, owned aircraft and rented many others.  What people "like" is subjective, but I've "been there, done that", and the "3D panels" in these sims isn't anywhere near realistic.  A 2D panel is the nearest thing to "realistic", given the limitations of PC sims.  I don't care if people disagree; I know what the "real deal" looks like, and "virtual cockpits" don't come close.

 

 

I go back to 68' myself.  Still don't care for the 2D stuff....................unless I'm using an assortment of monitors. I doubt that will happen.  I also know what the real deal looks like. I use to build them.  Considering we're not actually in flight, I think the 3D does just fine for providing a sense of reality, when we're really just sitting at our desk.

 

P.S. ----- I'm just a eye candy scenery person myself.  If it wasn't for the scenery (mountain flying was my thing), I'd have cared less about spending all that money for real planes, insurance, maintenance, hangars, etc.  3D's scan side to side, for scenery,  rather well... 

[racklefratz 4]

Still don't care for the 2D stuff....................unless I'm using an assortment of monitors.   Considering we're not actually in flight, I think the 3D does just fine for providing a sense of reality, when we're really just sitting at our desk.

 

P.S. ----- I'm just a eye candy scenery person myself.  If it wasn't for the scenery (mountain flying was my thing), I'd have cared less about spending all that money for real planes, insurance, maintenance, hangars, etc.  3D's scan side to side, for scenery,  rather well... 

 

As I said earlier, my objection to sim "virtual cockpits" is that to see the entire cockpit instrument panel, with all the controls and knobs there, requires that I zoom out so far that it's essentially unusable for anything BUT eye-candy - I can't see things in any detail, and I can't control anything with any kind of precision.  For gamers - non-pilots - that's just great.  I'm not a gamer; I'm a pilot.  In terms of what works FOR ACTUALLY FLYING AN AIRPLANE, I'm uninterested in debating what "looks good".  If I can't use it to actually FLY the sim airplane, it's not working for me.

 

To actually FLY an airplane, all that stuff needs to be close enough to be readable and accessible.   A 2D cockpit panel does that, and things actually appear more life-like than the goofy "VC" panels in these sims - a dirty little secret, but it happens to be fact.  I'm not really here to argue about what "looks real", and what does not.  I know the answer to that question, and it's not something I want to debate.

 

I appreciate the scenery visuals from an airplane as you seem to.  Although I earned my instrument rating, and I'm damned proud to say I did, I did it mostly for the added understanding of the national airspace system, and to increase my flying skills.  Flying in clouds was always more work than play for me, and I tended to stay VFR most times I flew.

[CrownCityMisfits 58]

A 2D cockpit panel does that, and things actually appear more life-like than the goofy "VC" panels in these sims - a dirty little secret, but it happens to be fact.

 

I'm not really here to argue about what "looks real", and what does not.  I know the answer to that question, and it's not something I want to debate.

 

Sounds pretty argumentative to me  :rolleyes:.

 

I find 2D panels to be quite ugly. I believe it lacks immersion. Feels like a PC sim from the 80's.

 

Here's an actual fact: every simmer has a unique set of preferences, and no one is right or wrong.

[LAdamson 240]

I've had my thoughts about simulated panels for a long time.  This discussion has come up in the past. I lived next door to the airport. I'd go sit in the plane to make some observations.  I didn't slump down into the seat, to see a panel taking a third or half of my forward vision. My eye point was above the panel. Just like driving a car. Without limitations of a monitor, it's easy to glance down at the instruments within the space of a fraction of a second. The real plane's panel doesn't cover much of the runway visuals, as it does with one monitor. I'd actually use the see through versions, when using a 2D panel.

 

There are other differences too, when it comes to desktop flying.  For the real life planes, there is a flow, as to what control, and what hand operates it. It's much easier, than manipulating a mouse to move dials and switches. IMO, unless someone has a nearly complete panel with all of the knobs and switches, then it's not all that realistic anyway. I do load up the knobs and dials on my Saitek 52 joystick, but it's still a compromise.  Even the joystick is a compromise for planes that have a yoke. But that's okay, as I much preferred joystick operated planes anyway.  But it doesn't stop there. I use the computer joystick in my right hand, as though it's a fighter. My real plane, a Van's RV6, had the pilots joystick for the left hand. Doesn't matter though, because I could adapt easily.

 

Since the RV6 did have a sliding canopy, I always appreciated the RealAir Marchetti SF260 a few years back. Especially with it's virtual cockpit..............that can act just like a 2D with a few button presses. Same for the RealAir Lancair Legacy, which is what I use most often now.

 

If, I was using multiple monitors, I could see using a 2D. But since I'm not, it's the 3D VCs that provide that added sense of immersion.  

[sparkie66 81]

 

 

Switching views around to reach different things on a panel is a non-starter for me.  You don't do that in a real airplane.

 

Indeed, when i'm gliding irl, the instrument panel is moving with my view as I look around, which is super handy

 

Try Track ir sometime. Imho 2d is so 1995. 

[racklefratz 4]

Indeed, when i'm gliding irl, the instrument panel is moving with my view as I look around, which is super handy

 

Try Track ir sometime. Imho 2d is so 1995. 

 

Your statement that "the panel is moving with my view as I look around" make zero sense to me.  I'm a previous aircraft owner/pilot, and panels don't "move".  They stay where they are, regardless of where you look.  Sorry, no cigar.  I fail to understand why we're even having this conversation.

 

I also don't understand why I keep having to repeat what I've already said.  Don't you people read the discussion before posting your own comments?  Why not?  You waste peoples' time.

 

I already said I OWN, AND HAVE USED "TRACK IR".  GET IT?  It's not a solution - it's a work-around, which is: if your particular sim configuration is such that you don't use multiple monitors, and, as such, you don't have the capability to show side views (e.g., PERIPHERAL VIEWS), then Track IR can help by shifting views on that one monitor.

 

If, on the other hand, you DO HAVE side monitors, as I do, TRACK IR is useless; you already have the ability to put windows for side views on your left and right monitors.   Are we communicating yet?  If not, why not?

Sounds pretty argumentative to me  :rolleyes:.

 

I find 2D panels to be quite ugly. I believe it lacks immersion. Feels like a PC sim from the 80's.

 

Here's an actual fact: every simmer has a unique set of preferences, and no one is right or wrong.

 

How you choose to interpret what I said is totally your call.  If you want to call it "argumentative", so be it.  I was merely stating facts.  If facts are "argumentative" to you, deal with it.

 

I can't care less how you characterize 2D panels.  So, you've drunk the cool-aid - you think virtual panels are wonderful.  You're entitled to your opinions, as with anyone.  But here's the clincher - I'm a pilot.  I've spent a LOT of time looking at panels, in actual airplanes.  Have you?  What's your frame of reference?  Are your opinions based in fact, or are they based in eye-candy on your monitor screen?

 

"No one is right or wrong" is typical political correctness BS.  There ARE "rights and wrongs" - 2 and 2 does NOT equal whatever you want it to equal, it equals 4, any day of the week.  And whether a panel view looks "right" or "wrong" does have a correct answer.  You need to get a serious clue, and be willing to take the advice of people who have had real-life experience with aviation as fact, rather than toss out  your uninformed BS.

[dgraham1284 92]

 

 

I already said I OWN, AND HAVE USED "TRACK IR".  GET IT?  It's not a solution - it's a work-around, which is: if your particular sim configuration is such that you don't use multiple monitors, and, as such, you don't have the capability to show side views (e.g., PERIPHERAL VIEWS), then Track IR can help by shifting views on that one monitor.

 

I don't understand why there is such hostility.  I was simply making a friendly suggestion.  If you don't like it, there are many more real airplanes out there at your disposal.  That is if you still have/can get a current medical. 

 

[arnobg 0]

I like how this thread has turned into a one sided debate about 2D panels, but what do I know I'm not a "real life" insturment pilot.

[Jim Young 2,356]

This topic has definitely gotten off track from the OP.  Therefore, I'm locking it.