I agree. This arguement always seems to be about whether there should be just the VC or no VC at all in the next version of FS. Why can't there be both and everyone will be happy, right?Even if developers (freeware or payware) decide to include just one of the two, someone else will always create the other type of panel so everyone will still get to fly all the aircraft.

You refer to trackIR "probably" cuasing you headaches and stiff neck - have you tried it? I haven't myself, but everything I've ever read about it from users has suggested to me that it works exceptionally well. Why do you think it would cuase you headaches and stiff neck? You assume everyone who uses it and loves it are just putting up with those maladies? Have you tried using mouse-panning with Active Camera? Panning with the hat switch is mostly a pain really. It takes a bit of practice to get used to mouse panning but once done, it's great...You won't get much argument from me or most other "VC advocates" about their use with really complex panels in the larger planes. They aren't there yet for those applications. But for the smaller GA planes they are great. By no means am I suggesting that FS10 shouldn't include 2D panels. It will without any doubt. FS11 might too. But gradually over time as VCs improve, the 2D panel is going to go the way of the 2D sprite for airplane models - it will be something we look back on and wonder how we ever managed to enjoy it...

You state the following: Either they force me to do something unnatural (TrackIR, which would probably cause me headaches and a stiff neck) Have you tried TrackIR ? If not I think you are making a statement that you can't possibly back up. As the owner of TrackIR with 6DOF I can tell you from experience that there is a learning curve and some tweaking that must be done in order for one to use it. It is just like using any other "tool". You learn to use it by making adjustments and soon grow used to it. Remember what the word assume means before making a statement regarding a product. C. Evans

I first came to FS in order to reproduce the experience of flying single engine Cessnas in real life. My first glimpse of the FS2000 2d panel nearly put me off for good. To me, it looked like a crude slab of poorly executed artwork hung accross the scenery that did nothing to capture the experience of sitting in a cramped cockpit with the noise, heat (in summer) and movement of the real thing. I tried again at the back end of FS2002 and was encouraged by the introduction of a passable VC. Then the thing that really did it for me was that little mentioned feature of Active Camera...'head latency', which, at a stroke, recreated some of the mild disorientaion and yes.......nausea (to begin with) that was for me so typical of a windy day in a C152. The fact that it's more difficult to read the guages and keep track of them in the VC as a result simulated, very well ,similar difficulties in the real thing. As others above have mentioned, all of the issues I have mentioned are much less of an issue when flying complex airliners. I look forward to the time when all VCs are like the recent Spitfire and Marchetti.

I agree totally. I've had my TrackIR for a while now, originally a TrackIR2, and then moved up to a TrackIR3 w/Vector Expansion the minute it was available. I recall that it did take a little getting used to, and I think I even had a bit of a stiff neck for the first day or two. But man, when I got the hang of it, it was pure magic. You'd roll on the floor laughing now if you saw me watching some FS video... I unconsciously roll my head left and right, up and down, trying in vain to look around in someone else's pre-recorded FS experience. I got a good chuckle when I realized I was doing that. IMHO, if you've got the bucks to spend on a really solid, fast computer and a TrackIR to boot, VCs are an amazing step closer to reality. But I also agree that this reality can come with quite a steep price tag!

My words. VCs for smaller planes are okay.Track-IR demands an unnatural viewing style: you need to fixate the monitor with your eyes, and then turn/twist/whatever your head at the same time. Try this without TrackIR - thank you, not for me!Stiff neck: I assume any movement of the head results in a TrackIR action, so better limit head movement to a minimum - stiff neck after some time. I get one even on my workplace with only a LCD in front of me where I can move my head freely - now think of Track IR - thank you, not for me as well!ActiveCamera: I have it. With my right hand, I manage my joystick. With my left hand, I cannot use the mouse, 'cause I need it for the keyboard, and I'm right handed, so: mouse in left hand = catastrophic results. That said: Active camera is no way for me in VCs.Coolie hat et. al.: a cumbersome way to move in the VC, but joysicks with little analogue joysticks in place of the coolie hat don't exist.So, in the end, when things get rough and hectic, the VC has lost it's right to exist for me, the only way I can do this is 2D panels spread over 2 monitors, and even that's often too little space...Only compromise to get VCs working is the panels shortcut method of ActiveCamera, where in fact the 3D world looks like 2D. Without such a feature a new FS version would be almost unusable for me.I still wonder how others can fly completely in VC, even in my Ariane 737NG I need the pop ups, would be nice to see a video of another user fiddling with the VC during a bad weather Funchal approach...Andreas

I totally agree with L. Adamson. I side with the original poster in that there are very few VC panels that are anywhere near 2D quality (sharpness/refresh rates) and the other perceived benefits of VC do not offset that fact in my mind. Also, zooming out to be able to see as much panel as you can in 2D makes everything too small IMHO.But the Marchetti and the Spit are two different animals altogether. Those VC panels are as sharp and smooth as any 2D panel.Regards,Jim

I spent 170usd on my TrackIR with vector expansion mostly for fs. I would sure like to know what tweaking you guys did, or maybe a profile you can send me because it's almost useless as is. It's kinda fun for vfr in small planes, but if at anytime you need to click a button you have to switch it off.It's also annoying if you reach for a soda or cig and the view goes ape and needs to be reset. For me it's far more annoying than useful and gives me a headache.I can't play without it in car racing sims and IL2-ish flight combat sims though.VC I only use when cruising (for fun), taxiing, and on short and final when AP is off.

As I said, I use VCs most in the smaller GA planes. In something like a 737 I'd use a combination of 2D and VC. But I often still use pop-ups even in the VC just for convenience. I think pop-ups are a perfectly acceptable work-around/compromise for the difficulty of cramming something the size of an airplanes panel into something the size of the average PC monitor. With the GA planes, when I want to click the buttons in the VC, I mouse pan to the area I need to look at, hit the key I use to toggle the mouse pan option and use the mouse to work the buttons. When done, hit the spacebar to recenter the view and toggle the mouse panning back on. With a bit of practice it becomes extremely quick and intuitive. I don't very often need to touch the keyboard really but can if need be.

Trevor.I was a 2D freak for a long time.. I love those Photo real textures... Never cared for the VC. Untill... 1. I experienced Active Camera with head latency in VC. Loved it. 2. The VC of few sim aircrafts is nearly as good as photo real (Flight1's ATR-500 and Realairs Spitfire).combine 1 and 2. 2D is history for me.there is a minor item 3.3. VC works without any tweaking for Widescreen monitors. I own a 24" Widescreen. Its time...that the 2D is built for widescreen monitor from now on.On the negative side.... I have started using Wideview and networked PCs and the VC support using networked computers.. is limited I think.. Unless Its something..I lack knowledge in setting up. (I am new to Wideview)

Hoary old chestnut though it is I think that this post has resulted in many interesting and useful responses. Some messages are coming across loud and clear.I probably need to get into payware to experience the best on offer in the way of vc

comparing the 182 VC to 2d panel, I think the 2d looks more cartonish. The VC has shadows and reacts to light while the 2d stays the same color giving you such a limited view of the world which I find impossible to get a sense of "being there"

Hello Andreas,In regards to the hat for VC panning and so forth, I changed the pan rate in FS9 cfg to 700 from I think 300 or 400 default and have a much easier time now. Just a thought. Best regards, Jeff