Germanwings 4U9525 dissapears over the Alps

[iwebber 207]

Are you looking for a note saying "I did it?" That you won't find. Nor is it necessary. The mounting evidence is frankly quite substantial not only now from both black boxes but also from what the German police have found plus a clear history of mental illness. Perhaps he was hoping that the speed of the impact would render both black boxes unuseable as well. Fortunately they survived and have been able to tell their story.

What I find disturbing also is that apparently Lufthansa knew of his depression but neglected to inform German Wings.

The official report hasn't been released (or even written) yet so I don't think it's fair we start making our own judgements based on what the media have told us, they're not known for their impartiality, technical knowledge and unemotional reporting on aviation incidents.

 

Having said that, it does look like he did it.

 

My point is that *why* he did it and the factors leading up to him doing it are still very much uncertain.

 

We don't know if it was pre meditated or impulsive. There's a good chance we never will, although I'm sure we'll have numerous opinions from the experts.

 

I agree, it's very worrying that Lufty knew about his previous problems but didn't see fit to keep a closer eye on him (or if they did, they didn't do it very well).

[tttocs 301]

 

 

Are you looking for a note saying "I did it?"

 

You're misinterpreting what he was responding to which was the assertion of motive and premeditation, not whether he committed the act.

 

Scott

[barrel_owl 304]

Are you looking for a note saying "I did it?" That you won't find. Nor is it necessary. The mounting evidence is frankly quite substantial not only now from both black boxes but also from what the German police have found plus a clear history of mental illness.

 

Mounting evidence? Let's make one thing clear: you don't know what really happened. So far you only know what the BEA wanted you to know. You did not listen to the CVR, except maybe for a 60 second snippet leaked days ago on the Internet and whose authenticity is far from being unquestionable. You don't know the content of the FDR, except for that slipshod report they released this morning, only 1 (one) day after the FDR had been officially recovered. For the records, I can't remember any other investigation where so many conclusive statements were made after few days, if not hours. Normally you have to wait months before a single note is released. Not to mention the outrageous leak of sensitive information to the New York Times. I am not questioning the official story. I am only saying the BEA is acting in very unprofessional manner. Flightradar24 proved so far to be a much more credible source than the BEA.

 

Perhaps he was hoping that the speed of the impact would render both black boxes unuseable as well. Fortunately they survived and have been able to tell their story.

 

A dive would probably have more chances to reach that goal than a managed descent. Again, you're speculating to feed your bias.

 

What I find disturbing also is that apparently Lufthansa knew of his depression but neglected to inform German Wings.

 

Pilots with hundreds of flight hours flew daily with Andreas Lubitz and admittedly left him alone in the cockpit. His ex-girlfriend slept with him, but apparently never reported any suicidal or criminal plan to the airline or to the authorities, at least not before the accident occurred. So his friends and his family, who knew him and met him. Now, either all these people are idiots or unresponsible beyond any reasonable limit or your assumption is wrong.

And finally, depression is not necessarily related to a deliberate crash, if past is any indication. Yes, Lufthansa could maybe keep an open eye on him, but honestly I don't think anybody would be able to predict the unpredictable.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

You're misinterpreting what he was responding to which was the assertion of motive and premeditation, not whether he committed the act.

 

Scott

Quote from a previous posting:

 

The mounting evidence is frankly quite substantial not only now from both black boxes but also from what the German police have found plus a clear history of mental illness.

 

...a poster's reply to the above statement by another:

 

A dive would probably have more chances to reach that goal than a managed descent. Again, you're speculating to feed your bias.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

New findings....this murderer....increased the speed of the descent....towards the final few minutes of the date with the earth...   The man was a murderer.  Just read this from the newspaper. They got the other box...  He wanted no evidence, and nothing to survive,for post mortem,  biological, or inert.  Insurance...anyone?

 

There will be a payout, eventually, as to the conduct of the law and bearing-of-proof....and 149 innocent lives paid Lubitz's insurance policy premium......

 

'PARIS - The co-pilot of a Germanwings jet that crashed in the French Alps increased the airplane's speed before it crashed killing all 150 people on board, according to French investigators.

France's BEA crash investigation agency said on Friday it was still reconstructing the flight, but the chilling new detail from a second 'black box' data recorder appeared to corroborate prosecutors' suggestions that the co-pilot acted deliberately.'

 

Murderer.....

[KevinAu 441]

Pilots with hundreds of flight hours flew daily with Andreas Lubitz....His ex-girlfriend...apparently never reported any suicidal or criminal plan to the airline or to the authorities, at least not before the accident occurred. So his friends and his family, who knew him and met him...either all these people are idiots or unresponsible beyond any reasonable limit or your assumption is wrong..... but honestly I don't think anybody would be able to predict the unpredictable.

Do you realize you're completely contradicting yourself? Go take a deep breath and come back with a better thought out argument in your defense of Lubitz.

[barrel_owl 304]

Do you realize you're completely contradicting yourself? Go take a deep breath and come back with a better thought out argument in your defense of Lubitz.

 

Kevin. Do you think you would be able to predict such a scenario? Yes or no?

[KevinAu 441]

I person with documented suicidal tendencies, depression, bipolar disorder, and psychosis who's a pilot? Ummm.....yes.

[barrel_owl 304]

I person with documented suicidal tendencies, depression, bipolar disorder, and psychosis who's a pilot? Ummm.....yes.

 

Not AFTER the accident occurred and after all his past is being revisited by the media to explain that action, Kevin. Not after, before! 

It's easy to find indications, motives and culprits a posteriori.

 

Sorry, I think you wouldn't. And I also think you would be surprised to discover how many other pilots in the world are flying despite having a record of depression. But I learned that this in not a problem for you, as long as they are not too young...

Never mind, I respect your opinion. Hugs

[KevinAu 441]

He had more than depression. He had some very serious mental disorders asides from depression.

[vertigho 8]

I person with documented suicidal tendencies, depression, bipolar disorder, and psychosis who's a pilot? Ummm.....yes.

 

Sorry, but you really can't predict this type of thing.

 

There are thousands upon thousands of pilots who are addicted to drugs, have some kind of (undiagnosed) mental health issue, whether that be psychosis, depression, bipolar depression, anxiety, etc, etc. They unfortunately deal with their respective issues in the dark, never looking for help, knowing that doing so may end their career. This is the unfortunate part of the medical-certificate system that exists for piloting, but it is what it is. This is another conversation for another time. I digress.

 

My point is: there are many pilots who, despite many troublesome and agonizing mental issues, do not choose to fly their respective planes into the ground. To say that you could predict Lubitz's action(s) is shortsighted. 

 

I would also encourage posters to have a bit of empathy for Lubitz. While his action(s) was/were incredibly selfish, you must understand what he was experiencing. I would not wish depression on my worst enemy. I cannot think of a worse disease. Life is truly unenjoyable. There is nothing, and I mean absolutely N-O-T-H-I-N-G that brings you joy, happiness, or gives you a reprieve from feeling miserable. You're dull, flat, blue... essentially life is empty, and beyond that, there's a physical pain and discomfort of sorts. You feel bad, you feel sad... everything is miserable.

 

This is not to excuse his action(s), because they were terribly selfish and certainly horrible. But please take a moment to understand and appreciate the awful pain he was experiencing on a daily basis (via no choice of his own). 

[barrel_owl 304]

@vertigho
Exactly my point. Kudos for you.

[KevinAu 441]

Yes, you can predict that someone is at risk to do this type of thing. That is why his disorders are ground-able, or career ending, as you put it, and he knew it. You two keep contradicting yourselves. On one hand saying you can't predict this, yet on the other saying his disorder can end a career. The reason these disorders ends careers is because they are at risk of causing a person to do something like this. Stop defending him. You're not being a hero defending a media maligned underdog. He killed 149 people. One of the worst mass murderers in history not associated with a government or terrorism. Think of those victims.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

This is not to excuse his action(s), because they were terribly selfish and certainly horrible. But please take a moment to understand and appreciate the awful pain he was experiencing on a daily basis (via no choice of his own). 

 

---------------------------------

 

I'm weeping for the innocents, and THEIR PAIN...the ones that were waiting at the gate for their loved one's safe and joyful arrival.  I'm weeping for the ones that lost their lives....

 

....not Lubitz, and his Life issues....

 

...screw his pain....for that pain has left an eternal legacy....of just that; ... pain.

[vertigho 8]

Yes, you can predict that someone is at risk to do this type of thing. That is why his disorders are ground-able, and he knew it.

 

 

You can predict that someone is "at risk", which is the operative phrase, one you failed to state earlier (although it may have been implied).

 

Just because someone is at risk of doing 'x', does not mean they will do 'x'. 

 

Again, think of how many mentally-ill pilots are currently flying. Now compare that number of ill pilots to the number of aviation crashes in a given year. And given this, take the number of crashes that ensued because of a mentally-ill pilot making a poor decision. 

 

See my point? Was Lubitz at risk of doing such a thing? I suppose so, if that means he was (in some quantifiable way) more likely to do so than the average pilot to do what he did. Does that mean this was predictable? I'd still say 'no'.

---------------------------------

 

I'm weeping for the innocents, and THEIR PAIN...the ones that were waiting at the gate for their loved one's safe and joyful arrival.  I'm weeping for the ones that lost their lives....

 

....not Lubitz, and his Life issues....

 

...screw his pain....for that pain has left an eternal legacy....of just that; ... pain.

 

This seems to imply that I'm not weeping for the victims. I certainly appreciate and empathize with their and their families' pain. 

 

That does not mean that I am incapable of empathizing with Lubitz and the pain he was experiencing. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

 

Again, I did not excuse or condone his actions. What he did was horrible and beyond selfish. That does not mean that we should disregard what he was going through. His "life issues" were very serious, likely worse than what the average human-being will ever have to deal with. 

[KevinAu 441]

You can predict that someone is "at risk", which is the operative phrase, one you failed to state earlier (although it may have been implied).

 

Just because someone is at risk of doing 'x', does not mean they will do 'x'.

 

See my point? Was Lubitz at risk of doing such a thing? I suppose so, if that means he was (in some quantifiable way) more likely to do so than the average pilot. Does that mean this was predictable? I'd still say 'no'.

It means he should not have been at the controls of that aircraft. It means that he should have his medical suspended. It means that Lufthansa should not have hired him since their due diligence told them he is more likely to do something crazy than your average person.