An armed "Air Marshal" on every flight, is possibly the worst idea, ever.

Why is that?  You are already flying with one...and he/she IS armed...you just don't see it carried in the open.

 

You can bet that they are vetted a heck of a lot more stringent than flight crew....and not by the airlines...but by the force or accredited service  they are with...and, they DO get mental-competence  tests, as well as small arms re-qualifying, yearly. They also are required to notify their superiors, if any of their peers seem not fit for duty, physically, or mentally, if noted by the Marshall reporting.

 

Yes..I want a Marshall, that can deal with the situation, if force is required, either physically as in restraint, or by means of deadly action.

 

No...they don't shoot someone because the P.I.C. might ask for a course deviation. If they deem it suspicious, they can ask the pilot to contact A.T.C., so they can vet the situation.  Having a cabin steward sitting in the chair....if a crew member is bent on destruction of the aircraft...are you kidding me?  If not...then please...take my seat, for I'm getting off the plane...the seat is yours....

 

There are already armed Air Marshalls  on international flights.  They look the same as any other male or female passenger...only up to the time they might be asked to spring into action, and save your life...   :mellow:

 

 

I'm not going to stop trusting my pilots because of this event

 

...and either am I...paranoia needs not set in, post Lubitz, but having a highly trained Air Marshall on-board would absolutely give me peace-of-mind hence on.

 

I will stand by that, either to thwart acts of terrorism, or by rogue actions by ANY of the flight and cabin crew, to bring the aircraft down....

 

There can't be another Lubitz Event.

 

 

I don't see a difference between a suicidal pilot and a suicidal air marshal. In both cases you are putting trust in an individual and both can bring down an airliner

 

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How many incidents of on-board Air Marshalls have you read about, that caused flight interruption, or worse, the loss of the aircraft, because they were suicidal, or went 'postal'.

 

The count to date:  NOT ONE incident involving an on-board Air Marshall, as the cause of the loss of aircraft or flight disturbance.  Now...let's count the times a FLIGHT CREW MEMBER was involved...

 

Well...the flight out of New York, bound for Egypt...passenger deaths-by-pilot

Lubitz, passenger deaths-by-pilot

Jet Blue...frightful episode witnessed by the passengers, as the Captain ran around the cabin, under Mental-Melt.

 

If you can add to the time that any reported incident by means of the actions of an armed Air Marshall compromised a flight...or was responsible for its destruction...then step in.  Seriously, I know that you will not be able to...for there has been none, since the program was initiated.

 

My point stands by metrics.

 

Ses

Who's going to land the plane if the marshal shoots the pilots?

 

 

Who's going to land the plane if the marshal shoots the pilots?

Hmmm Well that is a head scratcher alright     

How many incidents of on-board Air Marshalls have you read about, that caused flight interruption, or worse, the loss of the aircraft, because they were suicidal, or went 'postal'.

 

There are actual not that many Air Marshals used. The USA uses them but not too often. The USA is only 4.4% of the worlds population. I don't have the actual numbers but they are on an extremely low percentage of flights, compared to pilots for which there are two on every flight. Therefore statistically their is no comparison.

 

Not the entire world lives with high security, in my country we still don't use metal detectors or any screening when boarding on regional flights with Dash 8's or ATR's. You just walk straight onto the aircraft as you would a city bus or train. Also our police still don't carry any guns, it is not required. This is because we are a more civilized nation 

 

If Air Marshals were on every flight all the time then you bet one would eventually go postal, that would be about the worst job having to do that year after year. As it stands they are only used strategically and not very often.

 

 

But you seemed to have missed the original point as it was an IF scenario. It is perfectly natural to look at all probably causes so nothing wrong with having a look at the possibility of this scenario as well. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't happen. 

Who's going to land the plane if the marshal shoots the pilots?

We are only talking about that one will act out. The chances of BOTH pilots in a suicide-cabal...is probably never ever, going to show itself in the real world...but one pilots with a death agenda, yes.....as all the other episodes....the Egypt bound flight...Lubitz.....yes...there will a pilot to land the flight....

 

 

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't happen.

 

True...I guess anything can happen, but YTZPilot....personally for myself, perhaps not for some others, knowing there was a  Marshall on board with me and my wife...would certainly bring us both emotional comfort, post Lubitz...  She has said that to me directly, over dinner the other night.

And if the innocent pilot gets knocked off by the bad pilot or gets caught in the crossfire? If you are going to put a marshal on board with his gun at the pilots heads, you better figure out what to do after the shooting.

And if the innocent pilot gets knocked off by the bad pilot or gets caught in the crossfire? If you are going to put a marshal on board with his gun at the pilots heads, you better figure out what to do after the shooting.

Kevin, as to your example, if the bad pilot knocks off the 'good' pilot, having an Air Marshall, would most probably be your best chance for surviving the flight. As to the Air Marshall putting the gun to the heads, of the pilots...that sounds sort of Schwarzenegger 'Hollywood'.  There would be most likely, a double-tap...and the situation is contained.  The 'good' pilot could now take the flight down to the numbers....the 'bad' pilot, sleeping the eternal snooze. The passengers arriving alive....  The use of deadly-force would only be used if physical effort and restraint, could not neutralize the threat to the souls on board and the aircraft, itself.  The Air Marshall being armed, does NOT mean that the weapon would be drawn in all situations that might arise.

 

I wonder if a Glock 9mm could have damaged the door lock, enough to gain entry for the Captain to intervene.  I wonder how armored the cockpit door is...post 9/11, but certainly, a crow-bar is ineffective...as was demonstrated by the Captain in the last moments.

 

I want to have that Air Marshall, there to make it happen....

On every flight?

 

 

True...I guess anything can happen, but YTZPilot....personally for myself, perhaps not for some others, knowing there was a  Marshall on board with me and my wife...would certainly bring us both emotional comfort, post Lubitz...  She has said that to me directly, over dinner the other night.

 

I agree, but also I agree with continuing to use them strategically combined with intelligence gathering. The moment they are on every flight is when their effectiveness is lost. Kind of like TSA as the security just becomes generic and questionable when you have too much of it. Currently they are specialized and highly trained and used very strategically, which is in the best interest of the flying public.

I agree, but also I agree with continuing to use them strategically combined with intelligence gathering. The moment they are on every flight is when their effectiveness is lost. Kind of like TSA as the security just becomes generic and questionable when you have too much of it. Currently they are specialized and highly trained and used very strategically, which is in the best interest of the flying public.

Matthew, I raise a glass of brew, to everybody, always boarding a plane..and deboarding a plane. It is their right to expect so. I hope that post-Lubitz, all carriers will revamp their hiring protocols, their real-time monitoring of their flight crews, and their cabin crews, and give us, the flying public, the BEST security, and safety outcome...to get us to our future destinations. We can only hope something greater and positive, can be seen, moving forward. They must do something strong enough, that there never will be again, a plane brought down by the very people, who we have entrusted literally, with our lives, to transport us to our destinations.

 

Mitch

It is a pity that currently there's nothing in place that would allow ground to override the cockpit door's override lock...

 

...just thinking out loud.

As the technology gets better perhaps we are not too far off of having the company take over the aircraft remotely, even just a command to tell the aircraft to fly a certain speed, altitude and heading while locking out the pilots from the controls, until a scenario can be resolved on board, right now too many limitations to that but as technology gets better it opens up more opportunity for new systems.

 

Currently they have this sort of system on city buses where transit control can remotely lock them out when a situation happens, they are on monitors and can be locked out. Difference being of course when a bus is locked out it is sitting on the ground. I've seen this happen as the engine shuts down, lights turn off and all doors open, then transit control comes on the loud speakers and can see what is happening on the camera's....it is really cool. 

 

(Just thoughts as well)  :ph34r:

I don't have a problem with gun carrying air marshals.  I'm from the "wild" west of the United States.   A lot of us carry these objects called guns, and don't fret about everyone blowing everyone away, for little reasons. It just doesn't happen near as much, as some would believe. 

I don't have a problem with gun carrying air marshals.  I'm from the "wild" west of the United States.   A lot of us carry these objects called guns, and don't fret about everyone blowing everyone away, for little reasons. It just doesn't happen near as much, as some would believe. 

About as often as a pilot committing murder/suicide into  a mountain.

I don't have a problem with gun carrying air marshals.  I'm from the "wild" west of the United States.   A lot of us carry these objects called guns, and don't fret about everyone blowing everyone away, for little reasons. It just doesn't happen near as much, as some would believe. 

seems to be a mass murder every other week on the news ..