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Bobsk8

My feeling about Orbx

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I watched a video the other day on youtube where the creator of the video was bragging about the Orbx trees. I decided since they were cheap I would but the add on and try it. I ran the install program, and when I opened it, it said it needed to updates some files to the Orbx library. Well, that's strange because all I wanted was some trees. So I ran this update which consisted of 2,298 files that took a long time to download. I watched as the file names scrolled by and I see aircraft, trucks, vehicles, airport bgls, buildings, etc. etc. etc.  So I bailed out and stopped the install. Then I took a 2 hour flight in my Q400 and 1/3 of the way through the flight, P3D starts stuttering, and jerking, and finally locks up altogether and crashes.  I have never had a hiccup out of this program so I couldn't believe this was happening. I then look for an uninstall for this program in windows control panel, and there is none, or no record of the program even being installed. Now I go to the Orbx support, which is really there forum, and post the problem, and someone tells me I have to run the update or it won't work correctly. So I ran it, and it installed all this garbage in my P3D scenery folder. 

 

So I fire up the Q400 this morning for a 2 hour flight, and about 1/3 of the way through, P3D starts stuttering again and I look at my Ram usage it it is a bit over 4 gigs and the CPU is running wild. Finally it just locks up and quits. Now I go into a folder that Orbx installed on my hard drive and I find a script that says it will uninstall the trees, which I did. Now I go back to the scenery file in P3D/scenery/global to see if the trees are gone and they are, but there is still file after file of orbx trash in the scenery folder, trees, building, all the junk that was in the update that I ran yesterday. And the topper is, there is apparently no way I can get rid of this stuff, because I don't know if it supposed to be there or not. 

 

I don't know how a software company can sell add ons in this day and age without telling the customer that there is no backup to default as part of the install, and warning the customer to make a backup first. Then added to that, there is no uninstall program. I have never seen a piece of FS software that didn't have an uninstall. Now I have to fire up P3D again and try this 2 hour flight to see if it will crash again, and if it does, I guess I will have to uninstall and reinstall P3D. What a nightmare, thanks alot Orbx.... :mad:  :mad:

 

Oh, I almost forgot, I went to their forum this morning looking for the location of that script to uninstall the trees, and their forum is down.....

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First of all, you can open FTX Central and select Default.

 

That should turn off all Orbx scenery.

 

Then..

 

Have a look at your scenery.cfg file (you can open it with Notepad).

 

Look for

 

[Area.xxx]
Title=FTXAA_ORBXLIBS
Local=ORBX\FTX_AU\FTXAA_ORBXLIBS
Layer=xxx
Active=TRUE
Required=FALSE

 

If you want to disable all Orbx scenery libraries, you can set Active=False

 

Same for any other Orbx lines that you want to turn off.

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And not only that, you've been told all this AND given other advice across the various other topics you've posted in about the self-same issue over the past few days.

 

Do you not read the advice other simmers give you? Why should we bother giving it you?

 

I CATEGORICALLY tell you the problem is with your implementation of what you have purchased, NOT the products. I apologise to everyone else, but clearly I need to shout this at you

 

THERE IS NO VAS PROBLEM WITH HD TREES!!

 

Your problem lies elsewhere. Listening to what others are telling you might be a good start, doncha think?

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And not only that, you've been told all this AND given other advice across the various other topics you've posted in about the self-same issue over the past few days.

 

Do you not read the advice other simmers give you? Why should we bother giving it you?

 

I CATEGORICALLY tell you the problem is with your implementation of what you have purchased, NOT the products. I apologise to everyone else, but clearly I need to shout this at you

 

THERE IS NO VAS PROBLEM WITH HD TREES!!

 

Your problem lies elsewhere. Listening to what others are telling you might be a good start, doncha think?

 

My P3D runs fine

I Install Orbx Trees

Immediately after that, it crashes on long flights, which it never did prior to letting the trees installer do it's thing. 

 

You say the problem is due to the implementation of what I purchased.  I ran the installer that came with the product, that's all I did. Get real.  

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Bailing out midway through the install can't be good either. It's a library update, let it do what it's trying to do.

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I Install Orbx Trees
Immediately after that, it crashes on long flights, which it never did prior to letting the trees installer do it's thing.

 

The Autogen in P3DV2.5 is optimized so that it does not eat up virtual address space (VAS) on your computer.  You only get 4GB's of VAS.  No more.  You run out of VAS and P3D crashes.  Orbx trees may not be as optimized as the P3D default trees.  They are probably prettier but to use them, you have to limit your flights to short flights and/or move your Autogen slider down.  If you want eye-candy for P3D, then you must give and take in order to use it and enjoy it, especially for long flights.  P3D (or FSX) will not allow you to do anything else.

 

Best regards,

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The Autogen in P3DV2.5 is optimized so that it does not eat up virtual address space (VAS) on your computer.  You only get 4GB's of VAS.  No more.  You run out of VAS and P3D crashes.  Orbx trees may not be as optimized as the P3D default trees.  They are probably prettier but to use them, you have to limit your flights to short flights and/or move your Autogen slider down.  If you want eye-candy for P3D, then you must give and take in order to use it and enjoy it, especially for long flights.  P3D (or FSX) will not allow you to do anything else.

 

Best regards,

 

Well I agree, and that is understandable, but I think it should be mentioned in the sales info for Orbx trees on their website instead of claiming that with these trees, you FPS might possibly  go up some two digit percentage ( which I never believed) .. That was what made me consider buying this add on in the first place, thinking that if it had no impact on FPS, but on the contrary might even improve the FPS due to some hidden magic, that at least it couldn't cause any harm. Being a long time pilot, and flight simmer, to me the Holy Grail of a flight sim is how smooth it runs, and anything like add on airports and scenery with tons of bells and whistles stopped being of interest to me many years ago, when I saw the effects of installing content like that on the running of the simulation. I also don't like the idea of purchasing an add on be it trees. or lights, or anything else, and other files that have absolutely  nothing to do with what I purchased, are installed in my flight sim without first asking if I want them, and no way to uninstall them.  From now on, just sticking with default P3D and the two UTX areas I have,   

Bailing out midway through the install can't be good either. It's a library update, let it do what it's trying to do.

 

Didn't bail out of the install, I bailed out of the download. 

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 ORBX advertises that they have optimized the trees further than default with no increase to the VAS. More trees, same performance and they look very nice especially during spring and fall.

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I really don't understand what you've done Bob? I have plenty of Orbx scenery and don't really have any issues. How can you see what's being downloaded? Is that through FTX Central? I wouldn't have thought Orbx trees would need to use anything like that as it just replaces the tree textures.

 

Jason

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I really don't understand what you've done Bob? I have plenty of Orbx scenery and don't really have any issues. How can you see what's being downloaded? Is that through FTX Central? I wouldn't have thought Orbx trees would need to use anything like that as it just replaces the tree textures.

 

Jason

 

Here is what I did, and I am going explain this because one person is commenting that I must be totally responsible for this add on not working properly.  I clicked on the install with my mouse. I used my right hand to hold the mouse, ( maybe I should have used my left).  ^_^   Then the installer ran and installed the trees. I then installed the update, and the 2058 files that came with it, and flew, and immediately had problems after about a half hour of flying. That's all I did.  Can you figure out where I may have gone wrong? 

 

I saw the names of the different files as they were being downloaded using FTX central. Almost all of them had names that had nothing to do with trees or shrubbery that I could see. 

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Thanks Bob(?)

 

Understand.

 

How was the "update" presented to you? Was it part of the Trees installer? Did it give you a choice to install or not because my understanding (could be wrong) is that Trees does not require the Orbx libraries to function (and that sounds like what it was downloading).

 

Jason

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 To be fair, you did say that you bailed out and stopped the install. Everytime you install something from ORBX, it's advised to install or even reinstall the latest libraries to avoid problems.

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Yeah just following on from Dave's comment and if your p3d has been mucked up because of this you could fully install the Orbx libraries again so that they complete and then fully uninstall them. That might get you back on an even keel.

 

Jason

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Orbx trees may not be as optimized as the P3D default trees.

 

ORBX Trees had almost no impact on VAS on my system; performance was slightly better thank the default trees though.

 

To the OP, there obviously something awry with the install.

Try reinstalling in this order: 

- Reinstall FTX Trees

- Download and install FTX Central V2

- Download and install the ORBX Libraries for P3D V2 (very important to get the right version)

 

I would first confirm on the ORBX forums if the last two are required if you don't have any regions installed...

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First of all, you can open FTX Central and select Default.

 

That should turn off all Orbx scenery.

 

Then..

 

Have a look at your scenery.cfg file (you can open it with Notepad).

 

Look for

 

[Area.xxx]

Title=FTXAA_ORBXLIBS

Local=ORBX\FTX_AU\FTXAA_ORBXLIBS

Layer=xxx

Active=TRUE

Required=FALSE

 

If you want to disable all Orbx scenery libraries, you can set Active=False

 

Same for any other Orbx lines that you want to turn off.

 

Just to be clear, although I don't think that it has anything to do with this fellows issues and I don't know if he has Central or Central V2, if the user has upgraded to Central V2 there is no default switch, but one has to click on FS Global, which is default....or course if you have Global as I do, the you are going to see Orbx textures and HD Trees if you have the settings established as your default.

 

It is all clearly set out in the Manual for HD Trees.  Under the "Settings" are tick boxes to turn on and off the HD Trees....which is implemented once you select a "Group" scenery.  The scripts are setup to maintain a backup of your original trees texture sets and can be found in a sub folder under Orbx Scripts.

 

The above posters comments about reinstall, installing Central V2 and updating libraries should be followed.

 

Your problem is most likely something else.

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 To be fair, you did say that you bailed out and stopped the install. Everytime you install something from ORBX, it's advised to install or even reinstall the latest libraries to avoid problems.

 

Just to clarify, I installed trees. Immediately this other program which installed itself in my User Folder, called FTX Central 2 told me that I needed to install an important  update to the Orbx library ( not sure if that was the exact wording, but that was the message I got). After reading this I let it start to download the update. Keep in mind that this is the first Obrx add on I have purchased, so I am just following their instructions.  Nothing was installing yet, it was just downloading the 2058 files that it needed so that it could install them. I'll say it once more, its was just downloading the files.  When I saw the names of the files had no earthly connection to anything that has to do with trees, I cancelled  the download. I didn't want unknown bgls, aircraft, trucks, wheel barrows, dogs, cats, or anything else that was in this huge download being installed into my P3D. So I flew a flight with just the installed trees, and after about a 1/2 hour P3D locked up and crashed, my first crash since I have been flying P3D and I have gone on flights from New york City to Miami with zero problems. So I go on the Orbx forum site, and someone who seems to be there all the time, tells me that I need to install this update and that will solve the problem. So that is what I did, I opened up FTX central again, and let it download the entire update from scratch, which took a long time. Then I told it to install the update. After it installed the update "successfully it said" , I figured I was good to go, so I started a flight and after 45 minutes, P3D locked up and crashed again. Now I try and go back on the Orbx forum to find out what in heck I can do next, and their forum is down. Now all I want to do is delete this trees and bushes and weeds and get back to square one. That is when I discovered the script to uninstall it in the folder where the Trees were installed. The script ran rather quickly, but I still see files from orbx in my scenery folder, so it looks like it didn't uninstall the files that were in that update. 

 

I am now 1 1/2 hours into a flight and P3D is running smooth as silk.  Tonight I am going to look in my scenery folders and delete anything that has the orbx name attached to it. My question now, is how can I uninstall this FTX Central 2 program, because I don't want that either?  Can I just delete the folder ( which I don't like doing), because there is no uninstall for that program  either. 

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Can we just clarify. You stated this;

 

Didn't bail out of the install, I bailed out of the download. 

 

But in you're first post you stated;

 

I watched a video the other day on youtube where the creator of the video was bragging about the Orbx trees. I decided since they were cheap I would but the add on and try it. I ran the install program, and when I opened it, it said it needed to updates some files to the Orbx library. Well, that's strange because all I wanted was some trees. So I ran this update which consisted of 2,298 files that took a long time to download. I watched as the file names scrolled by and I see aircraft, trucks, vehicles, airport bgls, buildings, etc. etc. etc.  So I bailed out and stopped the install.

 

So did you bail out of the install? Because if you did, then you should re-run that install and let it finished. Unless that's a typo and you meant download not install?

 

If the issue you have is with Trees, and Trees needs an update to the library, then your choice is to not use trees, or update the library.

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Can we just clarify. You stated this;

 

 

But in you're first post you stated;

 

 

So did you bail out of the install? Because if you did, then you should re-run that install and let it finished. Unless that's a typo and you meant download not install?

 

If the issue you have is with Trees, and Trees needs an update to the library, then your choice is to not use trees, or update the library.

 

 

I never let the download finish when I saw the junk it was downloading that obviously had nothing to do with trees or foliage. You can't run an install program until it is finished downloading, at least any that I have ever seen in 30 years that I have been working with computers. I ran a flight without running the update, and it crashed after around a half an hour. Then I went to the Orbx forum and someone told me I had to run the update and that would fix it, so I went back and started the download of the update  with  the over 2,000 files , that I had previously cancelled, again. When It was finished, I ran the update and it said it was successful. I then flew again, and P3D locked up again. 

 

Anyway, today, I uninstalled the trees, at least most of them I think, using the script that they had in the folder. I loaded up my MJQ400 a few hours ago  and went on a 2 hour flight that went off without a problem, and the FPS stayed right where they used to be before the Trees fiasco, , and no more microstutters and no locking up or crashing of the P3D.  

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- Download and install the ORBX Libraries for P3D V2 (very important to get the right version)

 

Bobsk8, did you follow this step?   its important.  My FTX central would not function at all without updating the Orbtx Libs 

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and their forum is down.....

And someone suggested I asked a question that I'd sought answers for, in here, over there? Says it all.......

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Bobsk8, did you follow this step?   its important.  My FTX central would not function at all without updating the Orbtx Libs 

 

that was the update that I ran, which I mentioned in just about every one of my posts. 

And someone suggested I asked a question that I'd sought answers for, in here, over there? Says it all.......

 

Yeah I kinda browsed around their forums over there. Confusing is an understatement. 

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Poppet, on 09 Jun 2015 - 9:02 PM, said:
Bobsk8, did you follow this step?   its important.  My FTX central would not function at all without updating the Orbtx Libs 
 
that was the update that I ran, which I mentioned in just about every one of my posts. 

Oh ok 

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Here is what I did, and I am going explain this because one person is commenting that I must be totally responsible for this add on not working properly.  I clicked on the install with my mouse. I used my right hand to hold the mouse, ( maybe I should have used my left).  ^_^   Then the installer ran and installed the trees. I then installed the update, and the 2058 files that came with it, and flew, and immediately had problems after about a half hour of flying. That's all I did.  Can you figure out where I may have gone wrong? 

 

I saw the names of the different files as they were being downloaded using FTX central. Almost all of them had names that had nothing to do with trees or shrubbery that I could see. 

 

What you did wrong is bailing out in the middle of installing the orbx libraries.  I think that when you bailed out in the middle of the install you screwed something up.

 

Who knows what might have gotten screwed up in a aborted install.

 

Just curious why did you not let it install?  

 

BTW I have ORBX trees and I can fly the PMDG 777 into SFO with ORBX northern cal and trees active after a 10 hour flight and not get a OOM

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Can I just delete the folder ( which I don't like doing), because there is no uninstall for that program  either. 

 

I can sympathize with you as Orbx doesn't really provide uninstallers ... all 3rd party should but many don't and I understand why they don't.  I'll get into the issues around uninstalling later in this thread, but for now lets tackle your HD trees issue.

 

To use HD trees you will need Orbx Libraries which will include FTX Central V2 if you have the latest libraries.  You DO want to download and install these in order to get HD Trees ... this is Orbx requirements (not going to debate right or wrong here).

 

Removing Orbx products can be a little tricky and their web site instructions don't actually complete the task fully.  But here is what I do:

 

1.  Delete the ORBX folder under ... i.e. Q:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\ORBX

 

2.  Edit the scenery.cfg and remove all references to anything ORBX

 

3.  The tricky part, either restore a earlier Terrain.cfg (if you have a backup) or manually edit out the ORBX entries.

 

a.  I believe Orbx will backup the Terrain.cfg before they change it, however, if you have other 3rd party products changing the Terrain.cfg between when you installed Orbx and now, then life will be more complex.

 

b.  Manual edit of the Terrain.cfg ... if you remove entries in the Terrain.cfg you need to be away of the DefaultTextureCount and the AutogenCount values.  Example: DefaultTextureCount = 383 (zero based index) means you will have entries like:

 

[Texture.0]

...

[Texture.382]

 

for a total count of 383.  On the Autogen side:

 

AutogenCount = 14 (zero based index)

 

[Autogen.0.0.0]

...

[Autogen.3.0.0]

[Autogen.3.1.0]

[Autogen.4.0.0]

...

[Autogen.13.0.0]

 

Note: with Autogen there can be more than 14 entries ... looking at ID value for "count" and not the actual number of entries.

 

So you'll want to remove ALL the ORBX entries, BUT you'll need to know if the count changes and/or if you need to keep them contiguous.  

 

Orbx usually identify their "new" entries with something like:

 

// ORBX FTX-GB FTXG Streetlights - U4L
[Autogen.26.0.0]
guid={F27EEDB3-FBFC-4533-896B-6FADB3C9907D}
AutoObject={62b95173-29a1-4ba9-92a1-06537fd49117} (FTXG_type_yellow-twin)
ObjectSize=90
ExclusionWidth=1
ClipData=No
Offset=0
Density=99
MinAutogenDensity=10
PlaceOnWater=No
RandomHeading=No
Scale=0.7
ScaleRange=0
PlacementRange=0
 
Fortunately Orbx don't seem to have "types" so nothing like [Autogen.29.1.0].  So after removing the Orbx entries you'll need to update your AutoGenCount based on ID not actual count.  The Orbx libraries are required for HD Trees and I believe it's the Orbx libraries that will build the entries in the Terrain.cfg (and why you get so many other entries) ... I must admit I've never installed ONLY Orbx HD Trees and nothing else Orbx.
 
However, the Terrain.cfg can get a little more "involved" especially if Autogen GUID's are changed but I will leave that discussion for another day.
 
Onto the Scenery.cfg ... now that you've removed ORBX dir, you'll need to update your scenery.cfg and remove all ORBX entries ... again I find it easier to do by manually editing the Scenery.cfg and remove all the ORBX references from there 
 
Example:
[Area.174]
Title=FTXAA_ORBXLIBS
Local=ORBX\FTX_AU\FTXAA_ORBXLIBS
Layer=174
Active=TRUE
Required=FALSE
 
You will now be with non-contiguous entries in the Scenery.cfg, BUT I believe the next time your run P3D and/or bring up the scenery library, it will make the entries contiguous (I think).   If not, you can just manually remove the ORBX entries via the Scenery Library UI.
 
You may NOT be done yet ... Orbx backup the files the tree's replace and they leave the backup folder.  You'll need to manually copy/replace your original backed up files IF you haven't used FTX Central 2 to simply Uncheck Orbx Trees and/or HD Trees.
 
And finally, do a search for "ORBX*.*" and "FTX*.*" from your root P3D folder ... there maybe some effects files and/or other files you might want to remove that are ORBX files.
 
If you go this route, proceed at your own risk, I'm only providing this info to help with the assumption you have a good understanding of how to edit files, work with directories, copy/paste files, and how some of the under-workings of P3D and 3rd party.
 
Now, the issue of uninstallers:
 
1.  How does a 3rd party resolve uninstalling their product when other 3rd party have update Terrain.cfg and/or Scenery.cfg?  A restore of a terrain.cfg that was made before some other 3rd party installed their product can and will cause problems for that other 3rd party product.
 
2.  If an installer backs up files that it "thinks" are the "default files" but are actually some other 3rd party files what are the implications?  The implications is that you will wipe out the original "Default files" because the uninstaller would be restoring already modified files (not the original default files).
 
So as you can see, the uninstaller would need considerable "intelligence" built into it to know how to correctly remove/replace files or do nothing.  Now add a changing platform such as P3D versions and the relocation of some key files such as Terrain.cfg and this is why some end up doing a complete wipe and re-installs to resolve issues.  
 
It can and does get very messy as more and more add-ons are installed and/or uninstalled ... yes, the potential for "unknown" errors is high ... yes, the potential for sudden VAS consumption is lurking ... yes, the potential for CTD increases.
 
It's a fragile environment.  I'm not "defending" the environment, P3D, or 3rd party, just letting you know some of the complexity and why these types of issues come up.  Overall 3rd party integration can be done much better (on both sides of the equation), but it's NOT a easy task and would certainly increase product cost and resource requirements to make this entire process more end user friendly.
 
Cheers, Rob.
 
 

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Once again, Rob, like a knight on a steed, you come to the rescue. Well done.

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