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Touch and Go advice

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Lately, I have been flying from the right seat which for me inevitably means a landing that would attract criticism of the bad kind. So I decided to practice by doing Touch and Go's from the right seat for an hour. Since I suck at Flap 40 landings, I thought I'd practice that too. Raw data flying in VMC in a 1500 feet AGL Right Circuit. Here are the results.

https://youtu.be/W9XBX469bp4

http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/image/jvM

 

As you can see, I need some pointers as I wasn't able to improve. There are a few videos out there that help, but they aren't touch and go's or, they don't use Flaps 40 (which changes everything).

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As you can see, I need some pointers as I wasn't able to improve.

 

The FCTM actually has a ton of handy info with nice graphics. Give it a look. I believe it also has a procedure in there for touch and go ops.

 

 

 


or, they don't use Flaps 40 (which changes everything).

 

I wouldn't recommend this for touch and go. Full stops with a taxi back? Sure. Touch and go? No.

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I perused the FCTM prior to practice, and I'll compare what I did to the manuals.

 

The manoeuvre graphic I'm using gives expected thrust and attitude settings for a Flaps 40 touch and go. Are F40 touch and go's not practiced in simulators?

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The manoeuvre graphic I'm using gives expected thrust and attitude settings for a Flaps 40 touch and go. Are F40 touch and go's not practiced in simulators?

 

They could be. It just seems like a lot of flap to be raising and lowering for such a quick maneuver.

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Soon as that MLG touches down you should be setting thrust to about 60 - 70% N1

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Disclaimer: the NGX is not my type, so the below is relatively generic and others may be able to offer more type-specific advice.

 

However, I thought on the whole that was a bl**dy good effort. Not too much I could dissect out of that: don't get too hung up on the turn from base to final as it's incredibly difficult to judge in FS, and I thought you did a pretty good job.

 

If I were being *really* nitpicky -- you do have a slight tendency to let the upwind wing rise a little, both on takeoff and in the flare. Just a smidgin extra right control wheel on the roll, rotate and lift off with crossed controls, then if you smoothly centre both rudder and aileron you should transition nicely to the crab for the climbout. Likewise in the flare, as you remove the drift with the rudder don't forget to put sufficient upwind aileron in such that you touch down on the upwind main wheel first, and maintain the aileron input as necessary during the rollout. As I say though, that's being very critical (and FS models are somewhat variable when it comes to their sideslipping behaviour).

 

The only other thing I would mention is to just be conscious of not getting too tight on downwind: especially in the situation you were in here, doing a right hand circuit with a right crosswind, it becomes a double-whammy because your crosswind/downwind turn is in to a headwind (and therefore tighter) whilst your base/final turn is with a tailwind (and thus is likely to go wider). However, I think you're already aware of this because you improved noticeably over the course of the three circuits.

 

Overall though, as I say, top notch -- you clearly had it all well under control and you didn't try to fly the circuit at 250-odd knots like some I've seen!

 

 

 


Did you spot my error?

 

You mean selecting Vref30 for your full-stop landing and subsequently landing with Flap 40 set? I wouldn't sweat it too much!

 

Hope you find this useful!

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The only other thing I would mention is to just be conscious of not getting too tight on downwind: especially in the situation you were in here, doing a right hand circuit with a right crosswind, it becomes a double-whammy because your crosswind/downwind turn is in to a headwind (and therefore tighter) whilst your base/final turn is with a tailwind (and thus is likely to go wider). However, I think you're already aware of this because you improved noticeably over the course of the three circuits.

 

Good observation!

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skelsey, on 25 Jun 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

 

The only other thing I would mention is to just be conscious of not getting too tight on downwind: especially in the situation you were in here, doing a right hand circuit with a right crosswind, it becomes a double-whammy because your crosswind/downwind turn is in to a headwind (and therefore tighter) whilst your base/final turn is with a tailwind (and thus is likely to go wider). However, I think you're already aware of this because you improved noticeably over the course of the three circuits.

 

Good observation!

 

Yep! Top man ;)

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Don't know the procedures just commenting from observation here from the best view at the airport (control tower), but at work we have P8's doing practice instrument approaches often ending with a touch and go/vectors back out for another. 

 

I have noticed that during their touch down/takeoff their flap settings remain unchanged. I have also noticed that their final approach speed seems a bit higher than normal (from ground speed since that's all we see) which makes me think they are using a lower flap setting on approach so they don't have to re-configure during roll. It could also be that they are only changing it one notch which makes it less noticeable but they definitely aren't going from flaps 30/40 to flaps 15, then again it could just be the way the Navy does it in this plane.

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Disclaimer: the NGX is not my type, so the below is relatively generic and others may be able to offer more type-specific advice.

 

However, I thought on the whole that was a bl**dy good effort. Not too much I could dissect out of that: don't get too hung up on the turn from base to final as it's incredibly difficult to judge in FS, and I thought you did a pretty good job.

 

If I were being *really* nitpicky -- you do have a slight tendency to let the upwind wing rise a little, both on takeoff and in the flare. Just a smidgin extra right control wheel on the roll, rotate and lift off with crossed controls, then if you smoothly centre both rudder and aileron you should transition nicely to the crab for the climbout. Likewise in the flare, as you remove the drift with the rudder don't forget to put sufficient upwind aileron in such that you touch down on the upwind main wheel first, and maintain the aileron input as necessary during the rollout. As I say though, that's being very critical (and FS models are somewhat variable when it comes to their sideslipping behaviour).

 

The only other thing I would mention is to just be conscious of not getting too tight on downwind: especially in the situation you were in here, doing a right hand circuit with a right crosswind, it becomes a double-whammy because your crosswind/downwind turn is in to a headwind (and therefore tighter) whilst your base/final turn is with a tailwind (and thus is likely to go wider). However, I think you're already aware of this because you improved noticeably over the course of the three circuits.

 

Overall though, as I say, top notch -- you clearly had it all well under control and you didn't try to fly the circuit at 250-odd knots like some I've seen!

 

 

You mean selecting Vref30 for your full-stop landing and subsequently landing with Flap 40 set? I wouldn't sweat it too much!

 

Hope you find this useful!

This is the very kind of tangible advice that I wanted that can't be found in the FCTM! Thank you Simon. And yes, the Vref was the mistake, I meant to select F40, but by habit I selected F30.

It's funny because there is an entire page and a half in the briefing i'm using on windage during circuits, but I made better sense from what you said. You make a good instructor! I'll do my best to adopt your rudder/aileron technique for lift off and let down, and also, your words about the crosswind affecting my turn to and from the downwind... Wow! I wasn't conscious of this. I just flew to the prevailing conditions. I'll adjust bank angle accordingly now on. Thank you for taking the time to offer up your advice.

 

Brett - I ponder at what they're practicing, I'd like to do it.

 

David - Thank you.

 

I think I can move on now. Time to explore RSR's NGX service failures. 30 failures per 10 hours of flying should do it

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This is the very kind of tangible advice that I wanted that can't be found in the FCTM! Thank you Simon. And yes, the Vref was the mistake, I meant to select F40, but by habit I selected F30.

It's funny because there is an entire page and a half in the briefing i'm using on windage during circuits, but I made better sense from what you said. You make a good instructor! I'll do my best to adopt your rudder/aileron technique for lift off and let down, and also, your words about the crosswind affecting my turn to and from the downwind... Wow! I wasn't conscious of this. I just flew to the prevailing conditions. I'll adjust bank angle accordingly now on. Thank you for taking the time to offer up your advice.

 

Brett - I ponder at what they're practicing, I'd like to do it.

 

David - Thank you.

 

I think I can move on now. Time to explore RSR's NGX service failures. 30 failures per 10 hours of flying should do it

 

Glad you found it useful, Brian. A friend of mine who used to be a senior TRI/TRE for a very large airline once said that the job of a trainer is to remove the blocks that are impeding a student's progress -- it's very pleasing (and rewarding!) to see that in this instance I seem to have been able to achieve that.

 

I think this is one of the areas of the sim where there is still a long way to go in terms of development: there's currently loads of documentation, written tutorials, videos even: but there is no substitute for having someone watch what you're doing and offer some practical advice to help interpret what the book says and apply it to a 'real' situation. It's the main reason why I'd love to see a good shared-cockpit implementation in complex aircraft: I'm not holding my breath though!!

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I think this is one of the areas of the sim where there is still a long way to go in terms of development: there's currently loads of documentation, written tutorials, videos even: but there is no substitute for having someone watch what you're doing and offer some practical advice to help interpret what the book says and apply it to a 'real' situation. It's the main reason why I'd love to see a good shared-cockpit implementation in complex aircraft: I'm not holding my breath though!!

 

This is one of the many reasons I'm really looking forward to the sim center. You're absolutely right regarding the training aspect and removing blocks.

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This is one of the many reasons I'm really looking forward to the sim center.

 

I'm intrigued -- have I missed something or is this a new development?

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I'm intrigued -- have I missed something or is this a new development?

 

We're building a sim center in Northern VA. Currently, a 747-8 simulator is being built (http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/news/fds-b7478-fbpt-unveiled) as our test/integration platform. From the lessons we learn there, a 737 and a 777 sim will be installed at the facility (it has not been decided which one of those will go in first) to get us off the ground. The 748 sim will eventually make its way over, too.

 

More here: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/470209-flightsimcon-2015-updates/

There's a video of RSR's presentation, here:

(Sim Center discussion starts at 25:00)

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Ah, I see! Very nice, albeit a bit of a distance from where I am in the north of England -- but having been fortunate enough to be involved with one of the UK World Flight teams over the last five years or so I've had the experience of 'flying' a full-sized sim. Quite apart from the initial sense of having to locate switches and controls in three dimensions instead of two, the multi-crew aspect is quite eye-opening!

 

As I mentioned earlier, training/instructing is something I enjoy a lot and whilst at the moment I'm working on a little project which will utilise the default aircraft and FSX shared cockpit feature, it would be wonderful one day to be able to extend that to more complex types across the internet rather than having to be physically in the same place as the student. As I say though, I'm not holding my breath!

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