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Gregdpw

No rnav approaches for kpsp?

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in the Pmdg 737 when I fly into orbx kpsp I choose the sbonno star and only vorb 31L is available. Looking at the charts there should be rnav approaches. I am up to date with my navigraph too.

 

Thanks

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I just checked my KPSP.txt and same thing.  Please contact Navigraph here: http://www.navigraph.com/forum/

 

Meanwhile, you can restore the backed up KPSP file if you back up previous cycle during install. As it happens, I do not do that.

 

Finally, the last sidstar cycle I did back in 2010 includes PSP and the RNAP/RNP approaches (filename: cycle_1007_sidstars.zip in AVSIM library)

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in the Pmdg 737 when I fly into orbx kpsp I choose the sbonno star and only vorb 31L is available. Looking at the charts there should be rnav approaches. I am up to date with my navigraph too.

 

Thanks

The RNAV approaches at KPSP are RNP RNAV approaches, which utilize curved leg segments. No current consumer level FSX add-on aircraft - (PMDG or otherwise) - currently has the capability to fly an RNP approach, which is why they do not appear in the Navigraph databases.

 

This reflects the situation in the real world. Many r/w airliners and business jets do not have the necessary advanced FMS and autopilot equipment installed to fly an RNP RNAV.

 

In addition, the flight crews must have special airport-specific training and FAA certification to fly these approaches, even if their aircraft is otherwise properly equipped for them. That is why, at the bottom of the chart, there is a text note "Authorization Required".

 

You could manually build the approach using the named waypoints, and the aircraft would follow the curved path after a fashion, but not with the same level of horizontal and vertical path tracking accuracy that would be required of r/w aircraft flying one of these approaches.

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Actually, the iFly 737 flies RNP RNAV approaches quite well.  It is the only aircraft that has the data in the Navigraph AIRAC.

 

DJ

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Yeah when kpsp first came out I would fly the rnav all the time. Oh well I am fine just lining up with the runways

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Hang in there Greg - the approaches were present up through and including Navigraph release 1506 and included custom coding for PMDG approaches.  I have a query in on their forum to see what happened and why.

 

David Jones - aka DJ

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The RNAV approaches at KPSP are RNP RNAV approaches, which utilize curved leg segments. No current consumer level FSX add-on aircraft - (PMDG or otherwise) - currently has the capability to fly an RNP approach, which is why they do not appear in the Navigraph databases.

The Majestic Q400 fully supports RNP with RF. The Aerosoft Airbus will do it as well, although the simulation isn't as nuanced as the Majestic.

 

Additionally, the PMDG 737 (and 777 I assume) have highly functional RNP simulations, the nav database just doesn't support RF. There's a lot more to PBN than RF.

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The Majestic Q400 fully supports RNP with RF. The Aerosoft Airbus will do it as well, although the simulation isn't as nuanced as the Majestic.

 

Additionally, the PMDG 737 (and 777 I assume) have highly functional RNP simulations, the nav database just doesn't support RF. There's a lot more to PBN than RF.

PMDG handles ENROUTE RNP very well - but not RF RNP approaches.

 

The issue of RNP approaches in PMDG aircraft was recently discussed in another recent thread

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/470399-rf-legs-curved/?fromsearch=1

 

There is a quote from Ryan (TABS) in the first post explaining the many technical challenges that PMDG faces to accurately emulate a true RNP approach in the sim, including the (lack of) correct ARINC 424 data at a reasonable price.

 

I'm not saying you can't fly this approach in the sim. Manually entering the named waypoints will cause an aircraft like the PMDG 737/777 or Aerosoft Airbus to follow a curved path that comes close to the depicted approach, but there is a vertical path element involved in the approach that neither PMDG nor Aerosoft can currently emulate. If something goes wrong in the sim, it's no big deal - but in r/w ops, with a continuous descent profile on a curved lateral path over highly mountainous terrain, the accuracy requirements are very high indeed.

 

The Majestic Q400 may indeed have this capability - I have recently purchased this add-on myself, and am still working on mastering basic flight operations with the aircraft, but will give the PSP approaches a try at some point.

 

Some, (though not all) RNP approaches in r/w are literally proprietary. The approved and certified nav data is owned by specific airlines, and the approach may only (legally) be flown by properly certified flight crews flying for the specific airline that "owns" the approach.

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Getting off track....Navigraph includes the RNP approaches regardless of what the NGX (or MD11) is capable of doing.  This is a Navigraph problem, they can fix it.

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but there is a vertical path element involved in the approach that neither PMDG nor Aerosoft can currently emulate

I am confused...what is this then?

 

 

regards,

 

Chas

 

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Here is why the approaches are not in the current Navigraph dataset:

 

PSP   PALM SPRINGS INTL

!FDC 5/4254 (KPSP A0296/15) PSP IAP PALM SPRINGS INTL, PALM SPRINGS, CA. RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 13R, AMDT 1B... RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 31L, AMDT 1B... RNAV (RNP) Z RWY 13R, ORIG-B... PROCEDURE NA. 1506250848-1512220848EST
 
The approaches are not available from Jun 25 to Dec 22 2015.
 
David Jones

 

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The approaches are not available from Jun 25 to Dec 22 2015.

 

Doh! I never thought to look in the notams... good catch David.

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Here is why the approaches are not in the current Navigraph dataset:

 

PSP   PALM SPRINGS INTL

!FDC 5/4254 (KPSP A0296/15) PSP IAP PALM SPRINGS INTL, PALM SPRINGS, CA. RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 13R, AMDT 1B... RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 31L, AMDT 1B... RNAV (RNP) Z RWY 13R, ORIG-B... PROCEDURE NA. 1506250848-1512220848EST
 
The approaches are not available from Jun 25 to Dec 22 2015.
 
David Jones

 

 

Further reasoning behind that is that runway 13R/31L is closed for resurfacing and has been temporarily moved over to the parallel taxiway (and runway 13L/31R is also closed).

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