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Nick Dobda

Tutorial #1 - In general, saving settings

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I've just scratched the surface on my NGX 737. I ran through the introduciton manual and saw things about saving flights, saving panel states. I am about to dive into tutorial 1.

 

I expect to spend a significant amount of time doing these tutorials over the next few weeks. With 3 young kids and a wife, though, I only have about an hour per night before bed I get to play with this toy. Therefore, I expect to only take out a few pages of the tutorial per night, and will have to save frequently.

 

I would like to pick up right where I left off every night. On the NGX side, will this require me to save the panel state at the end of each night... and re-load the next night? Will this reload everything, including info put into the FMC?

 

On the FSX side, do I simply save the flight as whatever, then load it the next night? So - Ill have to save and load two things every night, the panel, and the flight.. is this correct?

 

Am I missing anything?

Thanks!
Nick Dobda

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One save per night should take care of it. Right click on the sky and a menu will appear. Left click on Hide Menu Bar. Across the top of the screen you will see various categories. Left click on Flight then left click on Save. Enter in a name in the box for the flight and left click OK. All settings are saved. You will see 3 files in Flight Simulator X Files under Documents and 3 files in Panel States under the NGX. All the settings are in those six files. The next night from Free Flight select Load. Highlite the flight you want and click Fly Now. And you are back where you left off the previous night.

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A shortcut for the Flight Save feature is the semicolon key ( ; ), by default.

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Nick,

 

Thank you for asking this and thank you to Michael and Kyle for the response.  I believe we tend to get so engrossed and pulled in to flight simulation that even the easiest commands and processes elude us for the longest time.  I would have to lump myself in with Nick on this one, where a hectic or busy lifestyle tends to hamper our wishes of being able to engage in long haul flights, so these answers are very handy.

 

I have found that if and when you master the startup sequence of the B737 NGX, your time from ground to air and back to ground will be in line with real life pilots so for us newbies, tutorial #1 can take about an hour and a half total to complete, which is about what it took for me.  YMMV of course.

 

Kyle, how much different is the B777 time compression feature in comparison to the default flight sim time compression?  I know the B777 has it built in but the NGX does not.  Can people get away with using the default Flight sim time compression with it or will the sim crash out?  Just curious.

 

-Jim

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Kyle, how much different is the B777 time compression feature in comparison to the default flight sim time compression?  I know the B777 has it built in but the NGX does not.  Can people get away with using the default Flight sim time compression with it or will the sim crash out?  Just curious.

 

The important part of the 777's compression feature is the ability for it to sense a loss of control (or impending loss of control). It will automatically drop out of time compression (or lower the rate) at any time it sees that it is unable to cope with what it is being asked at that rate. It's not just a way to use compression without going through the menus.

 

There is a better description in the intro manual.

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The important part of the 777's compression feature is the ability for it to sense a loss of control (or impending loss of control). It will automatically drop out of time compression (or lower the rate) at any time it sees that it is unable to cope with what it is being asked at that rate. It's not just a way to use compression without going through the menus.

 

There is a better description in the intro manual.

 

The important part of the 777's compression feature is the ability for it to sense a loss of control (or impending loss of control). It will automatically drop out of time compression (or lower the rate) at any time it sees that it is unable to cope with what it is being asked at that rate. It's not just a way to use compression without going through the menus.

 

There is a better description in the intro manual.

*Thumps head*  You are very correct sir.  I DO recall reading that about changes occuring during the flight and the compression being suspended.  So I guess with that said, it isn't recommended to use any type of time compression in the NGX.  She's a delicate aircraft to begin with and I think imposing that sort of performance will cause the sim to crash out.

 

Thanks,

 

-Jim

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I have found that if and when you master the startup sequence of the B737 NGX, your time from ground to air and back to ground will be in line with real life pilots so for us newbies, tutorial #1 can take about an hour and a half total to complete, which is about what it took for me.  YMMV of course.

 

-Jim

 

That's funny.. was able to play for 25 mins last night on Tutorial#1. I "prepped" for about a half hour before I left work last night too. It's turned me onto a tangent, I'm wanting to research more about SID's & STARS. I'll surely review the steps of last night again too today, so at this pace it should take me about a month to complete this first Tutorial. I guess I'm in no hurry, though, and I'm having lots of fun doing it.

 

I did get a message "NAV DATA OUT OF DATE" on the IDENT page, so I'll have to figure that one out on the internet today too.

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I did get a message "NAV DATA OUT OF DATE" on the IDENT page, so I'll have to figure that one out on the internet today too.

 

Just means the nav database for your aircraft is out of date. As long as you're not trying to use current real world routes with the database, you can safely ignore the message. In order to update the data, it requires a subscription to a service like Navigraph, or Nav Data Pro.

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Just means the nav database for your aircraft is out of date. As long as you're not trying to use current real world routes with the database, you can safely ignore the message. In order to update the data, it requires a subscription to a service like Navigraph, or Nav Data Pro.

Thank you. I don't plan on updating...

 

But at some point I'll end up back at AirNav looking up real world SIDs a& STARs, exclusively in the continental US - whats the likelihood of coming across a change big enough to be noticed?

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Thank you. I don't plan on updating...

 

But at some point I'll end up back at AirNav looking up real world SIDs a& STARs, exclusively in the continental US - whats the likelihood of coming across a change big enough to be noticed?

 

If you're using the data that came with it? Pretty likely. In between release and now, the FAA has gone implemented a ton of "metroplex" stuff, so if you're flying into an area with a lot of airports (DC, Chitown, DFW, etc), you'll likely find a ton of SIDs/STARs that did not exist back then.

 

Around DC, most of the original SIDs and STARs are there, but some have been some that have been dropped, but a ton have been added.

 

Using IAD as an example (all off of memory here, since the NGX data is 2010 data, I think):

 

Added

Removed

Redesigned

Unchanged

 

SIDS:

  • BULRN ONE (RNAV)
  • BUNZZ THREE (RNAV) (unsure if this one is in the 2010 data - it came out around then)
  • CAPITAL NINE
  • JCOBY ONE (RNAV)
  • JERES ONE (RNAV)
  • MCRAY ONE (RNAV)
  • RIGNZ ONE (RNAV)
  • RNLDI FOUR (RNAV) (unsure if this one is in the 2010 data - it came out around then)

STARS:

  • BARIN ONE
  • CAVLR TWO (RNAV) (booooooooooooooooooooooooo - go Hokies!)
  • COATT FOUR
  • DELRO TWO
  • DOCCS TWO
  • FSTER ONE
  • GIBBZ TWO
  • GRAVZ TWO
  • HYPER FIVE (extensive re-design)
  • LEGGO TWO
  • PHILIPSBURG TWO
  • PRTZL THREE (RNAV)
  • SELINSGROVE THREE
  • WIGOL ONE (RNAV)

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If you're using the data that came with it? Pretty likely. In between release and now, the FAA has gone implemented a ton of "metroplex" stuff, so if you're flying into an area with a lot of airports (DC, Chitown, DFW, etc), you'll likely find a ton of SIDs/STARs that did not exist back then.

 

Around DC, most of the original SIDs and STARs are there, but some have been some that have been dropped, but a ton have been added.

 

Using IAD as an example (all off of memory here, since the NGX data is 2010 data, I think):

 

Added

Removed

Redesigned

Unchanged

 

SIDS:

  • BULRN ONE (RNAV)
  • BUNZZ THREE (RNAV) (unsure if this one is in the 2010 data - it came out around then)
  • CAPITAL NINE
  • JCOBY ONE (RNAV)
  • JERES ONE (RNAV)
  • MCRAY ONE (RNAV)
  • RIGNZ ONE (RNAV)
  • RNLDI FOUR (RNAV) (unsure if this one is in the 2010 data - it came out around then)

STARS:

  • BARIN ONE
  • CAVLR TWO (RNAV) (booooooooooooooooooooooooo - go Hokies!)
  • COATT FOUR
  • DELRO TWO
  • DOCCS TWO
  • FSTER ONE
  • GIBBZ TWO
  • GRAVZ TWO
  • HYPER FIVE (extensive re-design)
  • LEGGO TWO
  • PHILIPSBURG TWO
  • PRTZL THREE (RNAV)
  • SELINSGROVE THREE
  • WIGOL ONE (RNAV)

 

That's a lot committed to memory...do you remember what you had for dinner last Tuesday? :)

 

-Jim

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That's a lot committed to memory...do you remember what you had for dinner last Tuesday? :)

 

Yeah - Famous Dave's BBQ.

 

It's amazing what my mind will hold and what it will discard. Dinner last week? Totally. Various people's names I met 30 seconds ago? NOPE!

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If you're using the data that came with it? Pretty likely.

 

Impressive memory! Ok, the next question would be... Is there a goto place to view SIDs & STARs that were valid at the time the data that came with the base 737 was up tp date?

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Hi Kyle,

 

A bit off topic but as we speak about SID and STAR I jumped on the occasion in that thread instead of opening a new one.

 

What is the purpose in USA to have several SID/STAR very similar at some airports?

 

Here are some examples:

 

STAR at KIAH:

 

SKNRD4 / GESNR 1 (/ DOOBI 2), They all start at the same points and have quite similar paths.

 

SID at KJFK:

 

BETTE3 / GREKI3 / HAPIE3 / MERIT3 and JFK1 > The initial departure is exactly the same.

 

There are many other examples at other airports and it makes confusing the choice of SID / STAR for planning, doesn't it?

How do decide on which one to choose? For now I'm flying to KIAH and arrive at the AEX VOR which let me the choice between the three STARs quoted above...

Thanks.

 

(Note I'm not really requesting a specifc advice on IAH but more generally speaking, if there is a way to discriminate between the SID/STARS)

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What is the purpose in USA to have several SID/STAR very similar at some airports?

 

Good question, I'll look forward to the answers too.

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She's a delicate aircraft to begin with and I think imposing that sort of performance will cause the sim to crash out.
When I need to complete an NGX flight by a certain time I have used MSFSX acceleration of 4X for as long as 30 minutes with no problem. It's not that delicate.

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Good question, I'll look forward to the answers too.

 

 

 

STAR at KIAH:

 

SKNRD4 / GESNR 1 (/ DOOBI 2), They all start at the same points and have quite similar paths.

 

Some of this might be one came out before the other and they just never removed it, but I'm willing to bet that the main reason for the slight variations is due to traffic congestion (note how PLANB joins at different points), and interactions with KHOU's flows.

 

 

 

SID at KJFK:

 

BETTE3 / GREKI3 / HAPIE3 / MERIT3 and JFK1 > The initial departure is exactly the same.

 

These ones will all look the same, and the differences are actually pretty subtle/buried. Note the narrative, about mid-way down the page (and this is one of the primary reasons I usually beat the drum pretty hard when it comes to reading things):

  • BETTE3: Fly assigned climb, expect vectors BETTE D ACK (SID USE: North American Routes ONLY, 2200-0700L)
  • GREKI3: Fly assigned climb, expect vectors GREKI D JUDDS D MARTN (SID USE: NAR only, 2200-0700L)
  • HAPIE3: Fly assigned climb, expect vectors HAPIE D YAHOO (SID USE: NAR only, 2200-0700L)
  • KENNEDY1: Fly assigned climb, expect vectors to filed fix (SID USE: All other aircraft, at any time)

Essentially, the BETTE/GREKI/HAPIE are variations on the KENNEDY1 for use at specific times, for specific aircraft, using a somewhat tailored route, mid-way through the procedure. Take off, fly a mini procedure, we'll vector you around a bit to get you in sequence, proceed direct to [bETTE/GREKI/HAPIE], fly the mini procedure, proceed onto your route out to the NARs and thereafter the NATs.

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All right, so you made the Kennedy departure very clear (I picked up the example without reading the whole, my fault).

 

But for other cases, I guess that in sim without ATC, we just pick up one by chance as there are not always remarks to help choosing?

Back to the SKNRD4 / GESNR 1 STAR at IAH, I don't see anything that allows to choose one over the other (same requirement for equipment, both for turbojet and turboprop only, no specification regarding routing...).

 

Actually, it is even more complicated than I thought as corresponding RNAV STAR to GESNR1 (which is RNVA itself) is ZEEK1 and corresponding RNAV STAR to SKNRD4 (also RNAV) is DOOBI2...

And the other way round!! 

The STARs are referred one to each other.

 

Such a mess!  :fool:

After that, flying to Europe is a piece of cake!  :smile:

 

Thanks for your help as usual, Kyle.  :wink:

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All right, so you made the Kennedy departure very clear (I picked up the example without reading the whole, my fault).

 

Nothing to claim fault on. I only know some of this stuff because of my last contracting position, which dealt a lot with NY TRACON (N90) and Chicago TRACON (C90). It's easy to miss!

 

 

 


But for other cases, I guess that in sim without ATC, we just pick up one by chance as there are not always remarks to help choosing?
Back to the SKNRD4 / GESNR 1 STAR at IAH, I don't see anything that allows to choose one over the other (same requirement for equipment, both for turbojet and turboprop only, no specification regarding routing...).

 

I'd take a look at what the airlines are filing on FlightAware. Chances are, there's some letter of agreement (LOA) between the operator on the TRACON that says "you will file this unless otherwise directed." Operators and the facilities do actually coordinate quite a bit as it's mutually beneficial. If the operator reduced the workload on the facility, then they facility has an easier day, and the operator stays more on schedule (at least when up against potential ATC delays). It looks like the standard for UAL from IAD is the DOOBI2. Controllers would dump them onto a different STAR if necessary.

 

Looking at the altitudes on these charts and comparing them to the same (or similar) positions on other charts, these STARs are definitely related to traffic flows (either IAH departure interaction, or HOU deps/arrs). Note DOOBI on the DOOBI2 is 250/170B150A, while it's 280/220B190A on the SKNRD4.

 

In this case, I'm willing to bet that ATC would assign one over the other when conditions dictated, though you may see it in a comment, here (at the moment, it seems the NAS is behaving today, so that page is pretty boring - wait until Hurricane Season kicks up a bit and it'll get pretty ugly): http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/

 

 

 


Thanks for your help as usual, Kyle.

 

Welcome!

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Thanks again for the explanations. Flightaware is indeed a great website for checking the flight plans of the flight from/to USA. At least it helps picking up correct departures/arrivals.

Actually the real flight AFR636 I'm reproducing in real time has also planned an DOOBI2 arrival. So it may be the one commonly used.

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Thanks again for the explanations. Flightaware is indeed a great website for checking the flight plans of the flight from/to USA. At least it helps picking up correct departures/arrivals.

Actually the real flight AFR636 I'm reproducing in real time has also planned an DOOBI2 arrival. So it may be the one commonly used.

 

Yeah. A few years ago, you'd see nearly the exact same STARs in the US, but they were overlays. One would be ANAV and one would be RNAV. "ANAV" is a term we use to cover anything that isn't RNAV (essentially, doesn't have the capability to navigate directly to fixes and is dependent on ground based nav). So, one would be for old aircraft, and one would be for new aircraft. Now it's a bit more complex with tailored STARs. They're usually better about saying "TO BE ASSIGNED BY ATC ONLY" or similar (though it does say that with PLANB on a couple of them, some entire STARs are that way).

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Such a mess!

After that, flying to Europe is a piece of cake!
Romain

With the exception of Germany, Europe is confusing to me. Must have something to do with where you do the most takeoffs and landings.

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Well there are some pros and cons but generally speaking, it seems to me that the procedures in Europe give much less room to interpretation and there is much less duplication.

I mean in that I rarely have doubt regarding which SID or STAR to use as there is usually only one or two SIDs leading to your first chosen enroute point and same for the STARs from you last enroute point.

Off course this is a matter of planning a flight and  flying without ATC in sim.

 

Off course it depends where one's used to flying as you say and whether there is ATC available. 

After all my issue with the airports procedures in USA is only the lack of guidance sometimes to chose the procedures in use (not talking about airports with 8 or more runways with no indication of how the runway-in-use is determined on the documents available).

And as it is not for real flight, it doesn't matter much.

The only detriment is the frustration of not reproducing a real flight to highest level of realism!

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Actually the real flight AFR636 I'm reproducing in real time has also planned an DOOBI2 arrival. So it may be the one commonly used.

Romain

Out of all the major airports in the United States, Air France 636 would have to land at KIAH. I have run across three airports which have multiple STARS from the same TRANSITIONS and which one is used depends on direction of landing. In addition to KIAH using what I would call a directional STAR, KDFW and KDEN have them also. Such luck you have. DOOBI2 seems right for landing at KIAH. Landings are pretty much in a westerly direction no matter what the wind is doing. If the tailwind component  is more that 10 knots, the landings will be to the east. So you can pretty much count on landing to the west. I base this on a discussion I had on the FSDT Forum when they first released KIAH airport last summer. So I think DOOBI2 is going to be right 98% of the time.

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