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sadzag

my 777 lands near runway

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Hi All,

Today I did a flight from LFPG to LFMN, on the ILS approach, the 777 captures the LOC and G/S of the RWY04R of LFMN,

but when landing, it lands not on runway but near it.

 

I don't use scenery for Nice Airport ( LFMN), and it is the first time i face this problem. 

Already flown to LFMN with 777 and 737

 

see the attached screenshot

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5y0AqjF_RrvMjlmSFFPTnFaUkE/view?usp=sharing

 

 

Saad ZAGHLOUL

Edited by sadzag

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I can't access your picture as google drive requests to ask for your authorization.

 

But my guess is that the real coordinates uses by PMDG to simulate the ILS are a bit off compared to the ILS of the default scenery and/or the magnetic variation is different (depends of the actual symptom).

 

If you just get to land parallel to the runway a bit aside, then it's a problem of position of the scenery.

 

If you get a different course than the runway heading, then it is a problem of magnetic variation.

Have you the option to set the ils crs to the one of FSX in the PMDG?

 

I don't have this problem at LFMN but I have both a photo-real scenery and updated magnetic variation in FSX.

 

If it comes from an offset between the position of the ILS in the default scenery and the simulated ILS by the FMC, then I'm afraid that the only solution are either to modify the AFCAD manually to match the ILS, or to install a more accurate scenery (freeware or payware).

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What is the ILS course of the native scenery of fsx (check the default map).

Have you the option "Correct Loc CRS to FSX" set to On in the FMC?

041 deg is the correct crs rw but it may be different in the default scenery.

 

Looking at your picture, I'm rather suspecting an offset in magnetic bearings.

 

Is this doing only for the ILS 04R or also for the ILS 04L?

 

Also just a tip for you, at LFMN, landing runway is the 04L and takeoff runway 04R. It is inverted for noise abattment reasons. 

And for more challenge and realism, you could train to the VPT A 04L (it has a nice visual turn in short final) and it is the mostly used approach for noise reason. The ILS is used only when below vmc as it overfly some inhabited land very low.

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Answers to your questions:

-the ils course for 04R on the map of fsx is 42 yes 42  :excl: and for 04L is 45

-AIRAC 1506

-the option is set to ON

 

Thanks

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Can you try to tune the ILS manually in the RAD/NAV page in the FMC to force the crs to the native scenery and retry to establish:

_ 110.7/042

 

the one degree offset between the ILS course of the native scenery (042) and the one given by the AIRAC (041) maybe the cause of your issue.

However, setting the option "Correct the Loc CRS to FSX" to on should correct this already.

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Usually this is a problem caused by a Windows registery error that can be fixed by running the free Flight1 Registry Repair tool. Be sure to run it as admin.

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Usually this is a problem caused by a Windows registery error that can be fixed by running the free Flight1 Registry Repair tool. Be sure to run it as admin.

 

Good one Dan, I wouldn't have thought of that!! I have never got the OP's issue but it's good to know. 

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Hi, 

 

ILS 04R has an offset Localizer. Therefore it is intentional that it doesn´t guide you exactly onto the RWY. 

 

ILS04L doesn´t have an offset. This one should work as expected. If not then it´s the registry problem. 

 

 

 

Jan-Paul

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ILS 04R has an offset Localizer. Therefore it is intentional that it doesn´t guide you exactly onto the RWY.

 

Pesky approach charts!

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Hi All,

 

thanks for your replies.

I detected another similar problem, At LFML airport I found that in the FMC there is a rwy13L/13R  and not 14L/14R(the righit ones) as in fsx map and the other software ( flightsimCommander). Knowing that I downloaded the latest version of AIRAC1508 today.

Hi, 

 

ILS 04R has an offset Localizer. Therefore it is intentional that it doesn´t guide you exactly onto the RWY. 

 

ILS04L doesn´t have an offset. This one should work as expected. If not then it´s the registry problem. 

 

 

 

Jan-Paul

Hi Jan-Paul,

 

Yes you are right, landing on 04L were good, the problem still with Rwy04R.

 

But usually when i install an update of a PMDG, when i start FSX it asks me first  to register something ( the little window on the right of the screen). Yesterday i installed the latest and i got nothing. 

 

Usually this is a problem caused by a Windows registery error that can be fixed by running the free Flight1 Registry Repair tool. Be sure to run it as admin.

Hi,

 

this doesn't resolve the problem.

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An  offset localizer will not guide you to the runway centerline. You do not have a problem, check the approach plates for your decision altitude and below that you need to hand fly to the runway.

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An  offset localizer will not guide you to the runway centerline. You do not have a problem, check the approach plates for your decision altitude and below that you need to hand fly to the runway.

Ok thank you.

How the you explain: At LFML airport I found that in the FMC there is a rwy13L/13R  and not 14L/14R(the righit ones) as in fsx map and the other software ( flightsimCommander). Knowing that I downloaded the latest version of AIRAC1508 today.

 

see the screenshot attached

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5y0AqjF_RrvVW1tYnFMQXFsVG8/view?usp=sharing

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According to the chart I am looking at from Eurocontrol, the runway is 13/31... so I'm not sure what you consider the "right one."  FSX map is definitely outdated by more than a decade, that is not a reliable reference.  I also see 13/31 in the navdata, which agrees with Eurocontrol.

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How the you explain: At LFML airport I found that in the FMC there is a rwy13L/13R  and not 14L/14R(the righit ones) as in fsx map and the other software ( flightsimCommander). Knowing that I downloaded the latest version of AIRAC1508 today.

 

The runways are numbered according to the magnetic bearing rounded to the thenth. As the magnetic variation changes over the year and the runways obviously don't turn (fixed true bearing) their magnetic bearing changes with the magnetic variation. Over time, their numbers also change to reflect their magnetic bearing.

 

The magnetic bearings of the runways at LFML in 2015 is 133 hence 13L and 134 hence 13R.

Before 2006 when fsx was releasing their magnetic bearing were 135 and 136 respectively if I'm right, hence rounded up to 14L/14R.

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The ILS procedure is used very rarely at LFMN during low minimas periods of the year, and it is not the prefered procedure noise abattement wise.
Rather have fun with VPT A for 04 and VPT B for 22, which are real fun to fly in a sim.

In most cases 04L is used for landing, the ILS04L is indeed in line with rwy hdg of 043°.
04R is mostly used for take-of, the loc crs is 041 while rwy hdg remains 043° hence the 2° offset.

None of them can be autolanded in real life since there are no catIII procedures.

Interesting thing is the resiliency of this LFMN offset ILS topic on AVSIM since 10 years +.

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