Sign in to follow this  
guenseli

Startup State for all models?

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

I have a question if this is intentional or if I do sth. wrong:

 

 

When I save a flight, e.g. for the Freighter 777 and I add this as Startup State in the FMC, this is then valid for ALL models (PAX and 300ER)?

 

I expected that such a startup state is only valid for the current model.

Can I change this somehow?

 

many thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

When I save a flight, e.g. for the Freighter 777 and I add this as Startup State in the FMC, this is then valid for ALL models (PAX and 300ER)?

 

I expected that such a startup state is only valid for the current model.

 

Hi, Guenter,

 

You don't need to select the panel state for the saved flight as the startup state.  It should still be saved w/ that particular flight just by saving the whole flight, and it should reload when you load that flight. 

 

You are setting your saved flight's panel state as default startup for all versions by making it the startup flight.  No need to do that.

 

Yes, there is only one default startup state for all 777 versions (in 777X_Options.ini).

 

Hope this helps!

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the answer

 

 

 

 


and it should reload when you load that flight.

 

 

does that mean I should leave the startup state empty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Answering for myself:

 

leaving the startup stae blank does not give me the last saved state.

more something like a default state

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guenter, the Introduction explains panel states and aircraft options.

 

What are you trying to achieve?  When you start from default state such as FSX Free Flight, the panel state is defined by the option that can be selected in the FMS PMDG Options menu otherwise it starts with a pair of state files named 777 DEFAULT. The same file format is used for all three variants.  When you load a previousely saved flight, it uses the panel state that was saved with the flight. This is done automatically every time you save a flight. Each saved flight has a unique set of panel state files for that flight.  You can create your own panel states, which you can load at any time to the flight you have active at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


leaving the startup stae blank does not give me the last saved state.

more something like a default state

 

Hi, Guenter,

 

As Dan said, the startup state is what you select using the CDU startup state file name you select.  If you don't select anything, it will start up w/ everything ready to go and no flightplan, etc.  However you can create your own startup state from one of the default ones -- probably its best to start w/ no startup state chosen, engines on, everything ready to go; then set the aircraft up the way you want it at startup for a new flight.  Save that w/ a new name and make that your startup panel state.  Then every time you start a new flight it will come up that way.  I have mine set up to start w/ engines off, ground power connected, main pax door and cargo doors open, inertial navigation unaligned, etc. 

 

From what you are saying, it sounds like you may want to save your panel state (or whole flight situation) at the end of a flight and have that be your startup on the next flight.  This is a bad idea unless you like pulling your hair out.  Repeatedly loading a saved flight, flying to a new destination, saving again, and restarting next time from that saved situation is known to cause weird problems.  This is because saving and reloading the same panel state over and over again is known to corrupt the panel state.  What I am recommending is that you create a panel state the way you like it for startup, save it once, and then use it for your startup state as many times as you want (since you are not saving it repeatedly).

 

Also as Dan said, it would be a good idea to read the Intro manual about this.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


This is a bad idea unless you like pulling your hair out. Repeatedly loading a saved flight, flying to a new destination, saving again, and restarting next time from that saved situation is known to cause weird problems. This is because saving and reloading the same panel state over and over again is known to corrupt the panel state.

 

What?

 

Saving and reusing a panel state is my norm.  For example, I'll have an airframe at the gate at the end of a flight and save it. Then that flight is loaded, and new date/time set, and the same flight takes me to a new destination, so on and so on.  Especially when I following SWA flights. Never, in either the NGX nor 777 have I had a problem with panel state.

 

It is a problem to reuse a panel state that has been corrupted by something like a CTD or from an much earlier version, but to simply say you cannot reliably save/load panel states in succession is a myth that gets repeated here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


It is a problem to reuse a panel state that has been corrupted by something like a CTD or from an much earlier version, but to simply say you cannot reliably save/load panel states in succession is a myth that gets repeated here.

 

Hi, Dan,

 

It's not a myth.  I've helped a number of people who have had strange problems and it turned out that this was the underlying issue.  I guess you have been lucky, or perhaps your computer is in better shape than some and it's not corrupting the files on a save.  Note that  I am not talking about panel states left over from previous versions of an aircraft.

 

Here is what Kyle/Scandinavian13 had to say a month ago, Post #2 in

http://www.avsim.com/topic/474010-stabilizer-problems/?hl=%2Bpanel+%2Bstate#entry3289340

 

"Check your hardware settings to ensure that you don't have trim axis assigned that's in conflict. Also, if you are using a panel state that you save over continuously, it might have gotten corrupted."

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, there's a good reference. I can't argue with PMDG tech support.

 

Thank goodness computers are a lot more reliable than this suggests. It will be interesting when I finally save a panel state once too many times... let's see if that happens before I swap out the six year old Velociraptor for a SSD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Thank goodness computers are a lot more reliable than this suggests. It will be interesting when I finally save a panel state once too many times... let's see if that happens before I swap out the six year old Velociraptor for a SSD.

 

Hi, Dan,

 

It may not be very common, and I can see the appeal of flying the same aircraft over a long period of time, picking up where you left off.  But from what I've seen,  when problems do pop up it takes awhile to realize that the issue is a corrupt panel state.   Just not the first thing that comes to mind when, say, the plane goes into a nose dive on VNAV descent, or one engine won't respond to the throttle.  I still remember an extended forum thread back-and-forth with someone having a weird issue on approach.  It took awhile to figure out that it was always the same saved setup for the approach when the issue happened. Anyway I mostly avoid resuming w/ the same panel state I used last.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is panel states can get corrupted when saved and thus if you keep using the same one the corruption is perpetuated and will cause strange problems. That doesn't mean that saving the same state over and over again will inevitably cause problems. It might do and anyone doing so should be aware of the risk. But if you save a flight for later continuation the same risk exists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I wish I could set different startup panel states for the different variants.

Especially a customized long turn state for the -300ER and -200LR and a cold and dark for the -200LRF, as I read somewhere on the forum (in a Kyle's post if I recall correctly) that for the freighter version, the pilots are used to powering up the aircraft more often than on the pax versions.

 

Maybe in the future?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I wish I could set different startup panel states for the different variants.

 

Sure you can, and I do routinely.  For example, load the default 777F at parking spot at KMEM. Modify the aircraft state to suit your taste (I load the short turn panel and modify to suit my taste). Save the panel state with your preferred name (I use "77L GAP" for example as the panel state for a 777-200LR on ground air/power at the gate). Now this panel state is available for your use as you wish. You can use it to create new scenarios, new flights, etc.

 

Maybe I didn't understand the question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dan,

 

I may have not expressed myself properly or I have not understood your answer.  :wink:

 

I have already a customized panel state derived from the default long turn panel state and I have set it up as startup state.

But it gets loaded no matter which variant of the T7 I load (-200LR, -300ER, -200LRF).

What I would like to do is to have that customized panel state as startup state only for the pax version, while I would have a cold and dark startup state for the freighter version.

And I don't think it is possible for now as the same startup state set in the options applies to all versions at once.

In that, I think I join the OP in his question.

 

Sure another way to process would be to save a flight for each different version with the panel state I like as a workaround.

 

But if in the future, we had the option to set the startup state separately for each version, it would be a plus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Understand. Yup, that would be a plus.

 

Meanwhile, the only time I load a default state is to create a new start location, generally at a gate someplace and come to think of it I could be starting with a saved state and simply moving it to the new location. That eliminates all default starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Sure another way to process would be to save a flight for each different version with the panel state I like as a workaround.

 

Hi, Romain,

 

There's a file in the FSX\PMDG\777X folder called something like 777X_Options.ini . It sets the startup state.  You could try making copy of it, say when the default startup state is a PAX one.  Then rename it something like 777X_Options_PAXini.

 

Then create a Freight startup state, save it and use the CDU to make it the startup state.  Make a copy of the original ini file that now has the Freight startup state set as default, - name it to something useful like 777X_Options_Freightdog (Chien de Fret????)ini (in both, leave out the period before ini to avoid possible problems w/ the 777 finding the wrong ini file). 

 

Before you load a freighter, copy and rename the ...Freightdog" file to the original ini name. (Back up the other one w/ the same name first).    Same thing w/ the "....PAX" file.    I haven't tried this as I'm not at my FS computer right now, but it should work.  Just back up the 777X_Options.ini file before modifying anything.  Also, I'm giving the ini file name from memory, but it should be similar -- you can open it w/ notepad and see the startup state line in it.   

 

I will experiment w/ this myself in the next day or so.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Before you load a freighter, copy and rename the ...Freightdog" file to the original ini name. (Back up the other one w/ the same name first). Same thing w/ the "....PAX" file. I haven't tried this as I'm not at my FS computer right now, but it should work. Just back up the 777X_Options.ini file before modifying anything. Also, I'm giving the ini file name from memory, but it should be similar -- you can open it w/ notepad and see the startup state line in it.

You could automate that further using batch files (and desktop icons to run them) to copy the relevant version options file into the 777 options file. Then it would only take one click to switch to pax or freight default before loading the sim.

 

Switching options files should work, but surely it's much easier to load a freighter or pax panel state from the CDU rather than messing around with swapping ini files over. However it does mean waiting for a second initialisation sequence of course, not good for immersion. Generally speaking I choose my preferred state (short turn) on convenience rather than realism. It's nice to watch the 777 initialise itself from cold and dark occasionally, but the differences between long and short turn panel states are small and more in the mindset of the user.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could automate that further using batch files (and desktop icons to run them) to copy the relevant version options file into the 777 options file. Then it would only take one click to switch to pax or freight default before loading the sim.

 

Switching options files should work, but surely it's much easier to load a freighter or pax panel state from the CDU rather than messing around with swapping ini files over. However it does mean waiting for a second initialisation sequence of course, not good for immersion. Generally speaking I choose my preferred state (short turn) on convenience rather than realism. It's nice to watch the 777 initialise itself from cold and dark occasionally, but the differences between long and short turn panel states are small and more in the mindset of the user.

 

 

Just to report back, it does work, except I did it by manually changing the line "StartupPanelState= " in the 777X_Options.ini file (using notepad). So I keep one copy set to the Cold & Dark state, and one set to my custom gnd power on state.   I agree it is something of a hassle.  I know there's a way to have the files switched using a bat file, but I'm rusty on how to set one up in Windows7.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to report back, it does work, except I did it by manually changing the line "StartupPanelState= " in the 777X_Options.ini file (using notepad). So I keep one copy set to the Cold & Dark state, and one set to my custom gnd power on state.   I agree it is something of a hassle.  I know there's a way to have the files switched using a bat file, but I'm rusty on how to set one up in Windows7.

 

Mike

It's no different to earlier windows versions. Just a text file listing command window syntax (i.e. like DOS) commands with "exit" as the last line to close the window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this